tech cost in middle to late game

[Gelvan]

First to say I'm always playing at warlord "difficulty", because I'm just clumsy in military tactics and I like to build the hell out of the world - so to say..

Even though this really poor difficulty level surely is not by any means a measurement - I have a small problem with the research rate in middle game and end game.

It's by far too fast! In the beginning it's great, especially the first 50-100 turns where you really have to choose which way you go - but after you've got 20 cities with libraries and all that stuff (not playing AV, btw) - every tech is researched in about 3-12 turns.

Now for I'm not knowing marathon (haven't got that much time) and higher difficulty levels (nor skill...) - I have to ask you, if you have encountered this as well?

Would it make sense to increase the beacons needed for all the non-standard-techs? or would this spoil the AI's ability to research what they need?

Or am I just a banana and should really try marathon? but even with marathon, if it would increase the research rate to 6-24 turns - I think the reasearch rate would be to fast, because with 20+ cities research is really the most easy part of the game.

well, thanks for your opionons and also the experience of marathon-players.

 

[vorshlumpf]

Keep in mind that with easier difficulty levels, you'll typically have set yourself up by the mid-game to research quickly. In a tough game, things like libraries and continent-spanning empires are just a dream.

As for myself, it depends on the game and who I'm playing. Sometimes I get a really good set-up, such as with a financial Civ, and the techs just pour down. Other times, I'm fighting tooth and nail and 30 turns for each tech can be standard (I typically play Marathon games).

Late-game techs typically come easy for me, since I'm either dominating the game by then or I'm dead. Unfortunately, the AI handicaps don't don't normally allow for a consistent game.

- Niilo

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I was actually going to raise this point myself. I tend to play Monarch or Emperor, and tech costs are quite low...

However, I should mention that my GNP tends to be twice that of the average AI, and I like to build lots of libraries and academies. It may seem silly to complain of low tech cost when the AI is taking over twice as long as I do, but that still means that they're taking less than a dozen turns to research each tech on normal speed. Might be a good idea to greatly increase the tech cost progression after the second tier of techs- should also make it so that you have to choose one or two military branches to specialize in.

 

[cvlowe]

I think the low cost is partially offset by the sheer number of techs. I rarely ever finish researching everything.

Another point to consider is after researching a larger tech that takes 20-30 turns, I find my economy has expanded enough that a lot of the older techs I skipped over can be quickly done is just a few turns- that's when I end up grabbing 5 techs in about 15 turns, then pick another advanced one to work on that will take about 20.

That's just my general impression. YMMV of course!

 

[R0GERSHRUBBER]

It may seem silly to complain of low tech cost when the AI is taking over twice as long as I do, but that still means that they're taking less than a dozen turns to research each tech on normal speed. Might be a good idea to greatly increase the tech cost progression after the second tier of techs- should also make it so that you have to choose one or two military branches to specialize in.

To my understanding, the AI manages their finances very poorly, and is often researching at 50% or less as a result. I know I frequently see AI cities guarded by huge stacks of obsolete units.

I actually have mixed feelings on the idea of forcing greater specialization in FFH. I think that a specialized research strategy should be comparably viable to a more general research strategy. On the other hand, encouraging specialization would mean that mid-to-late game armies don't all look the same.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't really like the idea of making later technologies much more expensive. If you start a game in the Classical or Medieval ages, then the first few technologies currently will take about 100 turns to research.

In reality, over-specialization is rarely a good thing. Ideas often come from unexpected sources. I personally always wanted to be able to allocate different amounts of research to different technologies. (I would also like to be able to divide up labor within a city to work on a few more things at once, perhaps based on city size, but I realize these changes may be difficult and wouldn't necessarily fit best in a Civ game). It would make sense if researching a tech occasionally gave a research boost to something practically unrelated.

 

[Aliquis]

Its right that the general research speeds seem to be low but there is a nother factor that i havent seen mentioned yet that makes it valid why this is the way it is...

Its the point system for excample when you finish the game in under 300 turns with 10000 points (which is possible) you receive at the end around 50000 points in the Hall of Fame.

400 Turns with 10000 mean around 35000 and 500+ you realy need a large amount of points to have a chance to have a reasonable Hall of Fame score because i think the multiplier is gone then.

Best results you get in under 300 turns which yes i admit is takin away some of the fantasy flair but its as i said also a factor not to forget.

By the way i talk about difficulty levels of noble and prince which are my favourite ones im not sure how it is in higher difficulties. Below Noble i usually get less points because i cant raise the score in 300 minus turns to 10000+, either the enemy is killed or another victory condition is achieved means below noble i get averagely 30000 points with 7500 scoring in 200-250 rounds to play.

Generally though i dont care for the Hall of fame score and just play fantasy and RPG style which is way more fun to me.



Best Regards

Aliquis

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Low difficulty plays a role in speeding research, wince you'll have more happy and health in every city so you can get more commerce and hammers.

 

[hamtastic]

Quick note on the topic of specialization: increasing the research costs for all techs will not increase the likelihood of specialization. Instead, increasing the costs of an 'entry' tech with lower costs for techs past that will lead to greater specialization. It may actually be a good idea to make later techs cost less than the first tech to get in. Otherwise, there is no incentive for researching further techs along one line (other than to get a temporary edge in military).

On the topic of research: I usually play on monarch, and I don't think it gets too fast. Then again, I often focus on production rather than research.

 

[Gelvan]

thanks a lot for your answers - I think the main problem was what cvlowe said: If I research the big ones first and meanwhile my economy grows, logically the cheaper techs will be available in a shorter time.

After I read your answers, I think I have to change my mind: research isn't too fast. If I play on warlord-level it IS possible to have no unrest, to have have a library everywhere and to have many cities. Also it's possible to stay at peace until mithril working...

If I'd play on a higher level, my mid game would force me to produce more gold or culture instead of research, I would need (much) more units to defend my cities, sometimes had to buy them outright - thus the tech cost would be much slower.

This considered: it's maybe not the research which is to fast, but my difficulty level which is to low? not even that: I think IF you can achieve a high GNP it's only fair to get a great research rate - independently of the difficulty. It's just easier to do so on warlord level.

Well I've changed my mind - thanks

 

[Aliquis]

In my opinion its just right as it is specially now that with the newest patch its earlier and more likely to fight the "holy wars" against the Hyboream (or Basium ) and to compete with them u NEED to be at least halfway ok techwise or you wont survive (in my last noble game Hyboreum came up on turn 262 which was before the patch never so fast and i liked that challenge very much specially since we were on seperate continents but thats off topic) generally i think its allright as it is.


Best regards

Aliquis