Technologies

[QBurrito]

I was thinking about the tech tree, and from where the technology begins (before the wheel, agriculture, etc.) cities shouldn't exist. But correcting that would require a whole new pre-city game mechanic. So I'll leave it.

However, to fit in with the time period, I suggest one more first tier tech. Fire. It is just as big a discovery as the wheel or agriculture.

What I'd suggest is that fire-

• Prevents animals from going within your cultural borders (one of the first uses of fire was to ward off predators. And I know that this happens by default now).
• Is required for pottery, and all metal related techs.
• Gives +1 or 2 (from cooking)

Maybe it could add a new sub-branch onto the tree, relating to its uses. But something that big would have to wait for Civ V. (There is going to be a Civ V, right?)

I also have an idea for how future tech is handled. First, it should require fusion. Future tech should be the very last thing you research. Second, I think having future tech branch off would be a good idea. After researching future tech, you have a choice of recurring techs to research:

• Future entertanment: +1 in all cities
• Future medicine: +1 in all cities
• Future weaponry: all modern era units get +5%
• Future defenses: all cities get +5% defensive bonus
• Future agriculture: all cities get +1
• Future manufacturing: all cities get +1
• Future philosophy: all cities get +5%

Some of the specific numbers may need tweaking, but in concept I think the idea is good.

So, what do you guys think?

 

[KieranC]

I think that would be interesting to have the different future techs. And the fire tech seems like a good idea, even though animals don't really come into my cultural borders anyways.

P.S. we have the same number of posts.

 

[dh_epic]

The problem is fire was invented 1 million years ago. Compare that to agriculture, bows, pottery, which are all but 10,000 years old.

Admittedly, "Hunting" strikes me as really old. But I can suspend my disbelief about it. Hunting is as old as the animal kingdom, but the notion of organized society where "you are a hunter, I am a farmer, she is a potter" is only 6 or 7 thousand years old.

I'd like to see the game year start in 10,000 BC. But I think the early tech tree is the part they got the most correct.

 

[QBurrito]

Fire was never invented. It was discovered. That's an important distinction. But, hunting is older than fire. And that is on the tech tree. The 'hunting' tech is not 'organised society' if anything, that would be represented by agriculture. More likely, 'hunting' represents the use of tools.

There is a big disparity between hunting, mysticism, and fishing (which as far as I know, date back to 'time immemorial') and mining (~41000BCE), the wheel (~8000BCE), agriculture (~7000BCE). Might as well add in fire.

But maybe the beginning of the game needs a new pre-city period. after all, the creation of cities was a fairly recent step in civilisation.

 

[KieranC]

A nomad era, I'd play that.

 

[Mewtarthio]

But maybe the beginning of the game needs a new pre-city period. after all, the creation of cities was a fairly recent step in civilisation.

But the root of "civilization" is a word that means "cities." If one were to chart the development of civilization, one wouldn't start before man had even begun to settle down.

More importantly, a Nomadic Age would require an entirely separate gameplay, given that Civilization is so city-centric.

 

[KieranC]

well it could just be a few scouts wandering the map until you do something specific.

 

[QBurrito]

But the root of "civilization" is a word that means "cities." If one were to chart the development of civilization, one wouldn't start before man had even begun to settle down.

More importantly, a Nomadic Age would require an entirely separate gameplay, given that Civilization is so city-centric.

Begun to settle down =/= city. Small villages were the predominant part of civilisation for the longest time, until advances in agriculture, etc. allowed larger groups to live in smaller areas.

 

[dh_epic]

You could have a single "organized society" tech, but then that wouldn't be fun. Hence why they have "(Specialized) Hunting", and "(Specialized) Mining" occurring in the last 10,000 years. (Hunting and Mining are actually much older.)

Think of it this way. If there's pigs, fish, or gold in your city radius, you can tap it. Obviously you are "born" with some level of sophistication in hunting, fishing, and mining. You can handle hunter-gatherer in a basic way, and can use that to fuel your first settled city. But it's only with those key early techs that you develop specialized roles, such that you train people into different jobs. (Until then, everyone was everything at the same time.)

Fire just doesn't fit. But a nomadic age could be cool.

 

[QBurrito]

You could have a single "organized society" tech, but then that wouldn't be fun. Hence why they have "(Specialized) Hunting", and "(Specialized) Mining" occurring in the last 10,000 years. (Hunting and Mining are actually much older.)

Think of it this way. If there's pigs, fish, or gold in your city radius, you can tap it. Obviously you are "born" with some level of sophistication in hunting, fishing, and mining. You can handle hunter-gatherer in a basic way, and can use that to fuel your first settled city. But it's only with those key early techs that you develop specialized roles, such that you train people into different jobs. (Until then, everyone was everything at the same time.)

Fire just doesn't fit. But a nomadic age could be cool.

Not trying to be awkward, but I don't get how fire doesn't fit there. It could come along much more recently than in reality, and it would need to be researched, because unlike hunting, fishing, and mining, there isn't any instinctive knowledge of it. Plus the whole being the foundation of technology thing means it must be kind of important

But I do agree that starting in some kind of nomadic age would be cool. I may try and expand that. watch this space

 

[Lord David]

Future Techs eh? Here's something started a while back...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4733024&postcount=48

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