Term 4 - Judiciary

[blackheart]

As a last word I would like to remind everyone, just as Cyc just did, that we all wanted a short non-detailed constitution. That means we can't cover anything, and that we have to use our common sense most of the time.

True, but leaving it too vague or having bad wording leads to the confusion we are in.

 

[Strider]

This would make it so that the president would have to follow the instruction of each minister. So, we're back to where we started from, confusion.

I think it is high time that each ministry's roles are solidified and the borders clearly drawn.

I've tried several time to clearly define the executive branches duties, but so far it has not worked.

 

[ravensfire]

Public Defender's opinion on DG5JR#28

I'm going to skip my usual quoting of relevant law on this one, just note that it's found in the other Justice's rulings.

I will disagree with the opinions offered by my fellow members of the Judiciary, and agree with the comments offered by Cyc and others.

The intent of the framers of our Constitution were clear - the Minister of Foreign Affairs was to oversee most matters with foreign nations, excepting those clearly within the purview of other Ministers (trade and conducting war). We divide up most of the National level tasks and objectives to the Ministers, leaving only a few things up to the President. This division helps distribute the workload. Although not clearly specified, the task of espionage and spying falls to the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

The wording of our Constitution is to be lamented at times, but the intent and desires of the creators was, and is clear. Key among those ideals was a broad, generalized reading of the Constitution with regards to the tasks assigned to various elected officials. We have experimented with highly detailed, verbose rulesets, and minimal, generic rulesets. By far, we have had the best luck with a combination of a loose ruleset and a broad reading when questions arose.

To me, placing Espionage on the entirity of the Executive branch is, well, a cop-out. We, the Judiciary, should be more defined, more clear in matters such as this. Our role is not just to resolve questions, but to help ensure the process of playing the game, the political process that these forums represent, continues in a smooth manner. When the Constitution speaks clearly, it should be read as such (WoTP is a prime example of this). When is reads loosely, it should be treated as such.

Ruling:
The Public Defender finds that Espionage is assigned to the Minister of Foreign Affairs. That official should direct discussions and post instructions on all intelligence matters, including investigations, placement of spies and espionage.

-- Ravensfire, Public Defender

 

[Sir Donald III]

You are completely right, however, the question of the Judicial Review was who was in the end responsible. Of course anyone could start discussions about a possible spy/embassy mission. That is a right of the people, as also stated in Article N, which allows anyone anything not strictly forbidden by the Constitution.

By that same token, one could say that the Designated Player (usually the President, though not in this immediate case on account of Sir Richard and Mr. Phil,) is always in the end responsible, since it's the DP that ultimately impliments all actions taken from the TCIT. (Or makes things up as they go along at times.) There is the opening clause of Article D regarding the rights of subordinate Offices, but, again, if these do not speak up, DP has free reign. (DG5JR27)

As a last word I would like to remind everyone, just as Cyc just did, that we all wanted a short non-detailed constitution. That means we can't cover anything, and that we have to use our common sense most of the time.

Of course, from RL experiences, "Common Sense" and "Legal Code" seem to be mutually exclusive.


As for this particular case, this is, in my opinion on, how procedure should go:
Relevant Minister, or any Concerned Citizen, Opens Discussion
FA opens Poll; or decides by fiat if possible.
DA approves Funds if poll Passes or if DA agrees with FA if by fiat.
Pres/DP impliments action, regardless of opinion.

I'm not saying I wouldn't want more power. Although I don't want to go back "down" to a Minister to get funding, especially if I impliment something by fiat.

Actually, one point that was not made is that, in more devious operations than straight investigations, if the person making the covert action gets "caught", it would represent, at the least, a stain on our reputation, and at worst, initate War. Because of that, "Investigate City" is perhaps the only mission that might be outside the scope of Foreign, becuase a "Diplomatic Incident" has the potential of breaking Peace Treaties, and IC is the only mission that does not have that as a possible consequence.


This is quite similar to how I would view "Abort Wonder Polls" in a future CoL I am proposing (within the 24 hour holding time):
Concerned Citizen calls for abort Wonder; War Minister has a special case clause.
Culture opens poll
Governor or War Minister (depending on circumstance) changes build queue in TCIT (if "Abort" wins),
Pres/DP changes build queue in game.

 

[mhcarver]

as a citizen I would like to request a judicial review on the following amendment to article D.6 of our constitution under current language it reads

Article D.6
The Minister of Culture shall be responsible for the
keeping of the peace and the construction of wonders.

if amended it would read:

The Minister of Culture shall be responsible for the construction of wonders, as well as the analysis and maintenance of cultural borders. This office shall also monitor Japanatica's cultural level against that of all rival nations.

-mhcarver

 

[gert-janl]

mhcarver has requested a Judicial Review on a Constitutional Amendment. The amendment reads:

Change article D.6 into:

The Minister of Culture shall be responsible for the construction of wonders, 
as well as the analysis and maintenance of cultural borders. This office 
shall also monitor Japanatica's cultural level against that of all rival 
nations.

This has merit, and will be marked as DG5JR#29.

The Court will now consider this Judicial Review, and produce rulings soon.

 

[gert-janl]

CJ's Ruling on DG5JR#29

Though this is amendment changes a very important part of the Constitution, by striking the 'keeping of the peace' from the Cultural official's tasks, I don't think it is contradicting the Constitution as a whole.

I allow this amendment to be taken to the House of the People for a final vote.

 

[ravensfire]

Proposed Legislation

The Minister of Culture shall be responsible for the construction of wonders, as well as the analysis and maintenance of cultural borders. This office shall also monitor Japanatica's cultural level against that of all rival nations.

This proposal does not contradict any current law. Moreover, it clarifies the role of the Minister of Culture. This proposal passes my review. It should, however, be formatted per the rest of the Constitution prior to be submitted.

-- Ravensfire, Public Defender

 

[mhcarver]

I find that the proposed leglislation does not contradict the constitution in any way and may proceed to polling

 

[gert-janl]

In DG5JR#29 the Court rules unanimously that this amendment is allowed to be passed for approval by the House of the People. The poll is up here.

 

[Sir Donald III]

May it Please the Court!

So that there are no toes stepped on, I hereby request a Judicial Review on this question:

Who is the administrator of the City recently founded on the other Continent?

For this JR, I refer to Section O (1) of the Code of Laws.

Col O.1 - Formation of new Provinces

A: All land that is not within or surrounded by the Cultural Boundaries
of another nation may be considered as part of the Japanatican Nation.

B: In the beginning of the game, a default Province shall be established and
a Governor installed by election therein. This First Province shall contain
all lands that are part of the Japanatican Nation until other Provinces are
formed, and has at its Capital the First Established City.

C: Territories shall be formed by the House devising "Boundary Lines" within
established Provinces. Ratification by the People is required before these
boundaries have effect. The minimum size of these Territories should be a
space large enough to fit 3 cities at full Temple Radius.
1: Once a Territory has at least three (3) towns or has at least 50% of
the land within the entire territory under Japatanica's Cultural
Borders, then it becomes a Full Province with its own Governor.
a: Until this happens, administration of towns within the territory
are retained by the Governors of their respective former
Provinces. Administration of New Towns formed before the limit
is achieved will be under the control of the Domestic Minister.
b: Governors of new Provinces will be appointed by the President,
under recommendations from the Domestic Minister. These
appointments will last only until the end of the current term,
and be subject to Section G of the Code of Laws.
D: Provincial Boundaries may be readjusted with consent of the affected
Governors and the House.

 

[blackheart]

May it Please the Court!

So that there are no toes stepped on, I hereby request a Judicial Review on this question:

Who is the administrator of the City recently founded on the other Continent?

Why would the responsibility shift from Domestic at this day and age?

 

[gert-janl]

Sir Donald III has requested a Judicial Review on the following question:
Who is the administrator of the City recently founded on the other Continent?

Sir Donald III referenced Code of Laws article O.1

After careful consideration the Chief Justice rules, in accordance with Term 4 Court Procedures Article 7.c.3 that this Judicial Review doesn't have merit, and will therefore be dismissed.

CJ's Ruling on the dismissal
In my opinion Sir Donald III already gave the answer to his own question by referencing Code of Laws article O.1.
Article O.1.C.a clearly states that as long as a town/city doesn't belong to an officially established Province, the Domestic Minister will in control of the town(s)/city(s).
For reference you'll find the article here as well:

[b]Code of Laws Article O.1.C[/b]
C: Territories shall be formed by the House devising "Boundary Lines" within
established Provinces. Ratification by the People is required before these
boundaries have effect. The minimum size of these Territories should be a
space large enough to fit 3 cities at full Temple Radius.
1: Once a Territory has at least three (3) towns or has at least 50% of
the land within the entire territory under Japatanica's Cultural 
Borders, then it becomes a Full Province with its own Governor.
a: Until this happens, administration of towns within the territory
are retained by the Governors of their respective former 
Provinces. Administration of New Towns formed before the limit
is achieved will be under the control of the Domestic Minister.
b: Governors of new Provinces will be appointed by the President,
under recommendations from the Domestic Minister. These 
appointments will last only until the end of the current term,
and be subject to Section G of the Code of Laws.
D: Provincial Boundaries may be readjusted with consent of the affected
Governors and the House.

 

[ravensfire]

Sir Donald III comes before the court asking:

Who is the administrator of the City recently founded on the other Continent?

Relevant law

a: Until this happens, administration of towns within the territory
are retained by the Governors of their respective former
Provinces. Administration of New Towns formed before the limit
is achieved will be under the control of the Domestic Minister.

Citizen comments
The Public Defender's office notes the comments by blackheart, and extends our thanks!

Analysis
Fortunately, the law is clear on this. Until such time as territorial boundaries are defined, and three cities are formed within that territory, the Domestic Minister controls the actions of those cities. A single city in a new land clearly fails both the defined territory and the three city requirement, thus it's under Domestic's control.

Ruling by the Public Defender
A city outside defined territories, or within a brand new territory (not carved out of an existing territory), is under the control of the Domestic Minister.

-- Ravensfire, Public Defender

 

[gert-janl]

The Term 4 Court is now officially closed


Any judicial matters may be directed to the new Chief Justice in the appropriate thread (term 5 thread)