Tests for starting build

[Me_]

Here is some testing and questions about the first units to build. Basically, do you do worker/settler chop right away, or build some units so your city gets up to 2 or 3 then expand. I've been playing Civ4 about a week, won on Noble last night, and thought you more experienced multiplayer guys might help a new guy out.

Start: Built first city in a grassland and forest area. Built it where I started, so just the basic 2F/1P/1C city production, and worked a forest/grassland. Save the game, so I can do an identicle test. Playing on Noble.

Test 1: Fast chop.
Built a worker (15 turns), research bronze working (start with mining). He comes out at 3400, chops. Settler at 3000. At this point, I have the starting scout, 1 worker, 1 settler, and a city with size 1. By 2760, I had 3 warriors from chopping, and both cities were about halfway to their second population point.

Test 2: Size 2 expand.
Build a warrior and grow the city. City grows at 3560, halfway through second warrior. Switch to a worker (12 turns), now working 2 forest/grasslands. He comes out at 3080. Settler at 2760, 11 turns after strategy 1. At this point, I have the starting scout, 1 worker, 1 settler, 1 warrior, and a size 2 city.

Test 3: Size 3 expand
Build 2 warriors and an archer until city is size 3 (at 3080). Worker (10 turns) comes out at 2680, settler at 2360, 10 turns later than test 2. At this point, you have a decent military, 3 pop plus a settler.

So, it seems like the total population in tests 1 and 2 are the same, and test 3 isn't far behind. In test 3, you are missing out on a lot of potential chops, so it seems like waiting too long. In test 2, you lose 8 turns until worker (11 to grow, -3 from faster worker), which is 2 chops. But, in test 1, it felt very risky. At 3600 Tokugawa found me, before the worker was out. Since I had only the starting unit, I would have had to wait to build a warrior normally (without the chop) until I could go out and chop. In that time, he would be well into strategy 2, and the few extra turns of test 1 would have lost to the slowness of building the warrior on 1 population, which is most of the time to grow in test 2. So test 1 is a substantial gamble (you get a decent amount behind vs harassment) for a few turn advantage in expansion. You could probably defend a rush, but harassment would slow you down a lot because your military just can't cover the worker and your town at the same time.

Vs the AI you could probably get away with strat 1, they seem to stick by peace early on. Vs a human, I would declare war and explore their territory, then decide to withdraw and ask for peace, or fight it out. Strat 1 seems risky vs someone that does that. But I've only been doing single player for a week, so I don't really know. What do you MP guys think?

Thanks

 

[Heroes]

There is a simple and strong reason why warrior is the best start build (other than work boat if there is water resource and you know fishing): to grab AI's worker!

 

[Astax]

Circumstances are key.

The worker grab works on small maps with one landmap yes. But most games agianst AI I dont build a military unit for a long time unless ti so happens I end up settling on a plains hill, meaning my worker would have been done prematurely, and I have no ming yet. On quick a warrior within 8 turns of start would be twidling his thumbs especially if you started with incompatible tech to your surroundings. So in that case I can pop a scout to let city grow to 2 or pop a warrior if I have no hunting. The workboat is a good idea too sometimes, but it works under very restrticted circumstances.

Also it seems you worked a lot of forest times. Yeah from your placement there seemed to be no river/floodplain near by. But in some cases where I could work a tile with lets say 1 hammer 2 food, I choose to work the regular grassland near river, reason is the extra commerce from a water tile. It can subtract a turn to your research time. Very good if you are rushing to nab a religion tech.

 

[Luhh]

I consider the worker chop much more of an exploit rather than a feature, since the AI doesn't seem to know how/when to use it, and it completely unbalances the game in several cases.

They should just reduce the chop yeild a lot, down to say 10 for forest at most, and possibly give 5 for jungle as well? That way it would still generate a bonus, but not be so much of an end all strategy.