TGOM 02 - The Grumpy Old Monk and the Ancient Crone go to Alpha Centauri

Admiral Kutzov said:
bede will dismember you if you do that

Disassemble, disassemble - Robby Robot.


Deliberately wrecking the trading reputation the dastardly fashion you describe, eotinb, is a bannable offense.

Thanks, AdmK.

Now if Alex has his troopers in our territory and it looks and smells like war, you can buy for gpt then boot his tail back to Kingdom Come. Just be sure you are ready to take him on if he chooses to declare.
 
I see. I guess I wasn't aware of the effect of declaring to cancel gpt on reputation. I've had the AI do it to me (presumably because it can't afford the payments), whereas I've never had to AI do the other repuation ruining things (violating RoP, for instance). Lesson learned. Since I never got feedback on the other options as I see them, I think I'll build up the treasury a bit more while I wait for the library in Mayhem City to complete, then burn away at 90% science as long as I can. And if this is not the wisest move, I'll take my medicine when it's given to me.
 
You got the right moves, so far.
 
Here goes nothing...

Pre-turn: Nothing much -- put an unneccesary scientist in Scoutsville back to work in the fields (well, off the coast actually).

IBT: Lose an elite Mountie to a horsebarb, but another vet promotes. We are now officially a Republic.

260 AD: Micromanagement time! Change Salamanca from MW to market, Tyendenaga from archer to worker, North Pole from barracks to galley, and Eotin Bay from cat to galley. A few other changes here and there. Two galleys in the pipe. Set lux to 10%. All three of our neighbors have Feudalism, but none will sell. Hammi and Alex both want our entire treasury + 20gpt for Engineering (that's before haggling them down). Since the library in Mayhem City actually won't make much of a difference, I decide not to wait for it to finish before commencing my burn. With some optimization I can get Engr in 5 turns at 80% science (-49gpt).

IBT: Panama City worker>>galley. Too bad those horsebarbs didn't take out Hammi's settler headed to our NE shore.

270 AD: Clear out a barb camp in the NE. Have to push science up to 90% to keep on pace (-58gpt).

IBT: Alex tries to make me angry. I tell him he wouldn't like me when I'm angry (then I capitulate). Scoutsville galley>>galley.
eotinb_pic13_extortion.jpg


280 AD: Science back to 80% (-47gpt).

IBT: Bedeville MW>>settler. Mayhem City lib>>settler. Clever Springs settler>>lib. Napa Valley worker>>cat.

290 AD: Farm1 will need a scientist until it gets connected to the luxuries.

IBT: Eotin Bay galley>>lib. Tyendenaga worker>>cat.

300 AD: Science to 70%. Engr next turn.

IBT: Engr comes in, knock science down to 0% to build back up the treasury (at $110 right now).

310 AD: Packaged with $105 and 39gpt, Cleo will give us Feudalism for Engr, but I decide to hold off on making this trade as it would put a serious dent in our economy. Perhaps once the treasury has built back up a bit and we have settled a couple more towns (currently paying 60gpt in unit costs).
eotinb_pic14_feudalism.jpg


IBT: ...

320 AD: ...

IBT: Bedeville settler>>MW.

330 AD: ...

IBT: Our northern Galley defends against two barb attacks and promotes to vet. Mayhem City settler>>barracks (not sure what to do here -- perhaps a market would be smarter, but this city is not going to grow very fast until we irrigate some of the surrounding plains, and without a barracks, not much point in producing MWs). Venerable Valley barracks>>MW.

340 AD: Found Farm 4. Galley sent to heal in North Pole.

Summary: Mounties on lookout duty in the N and E. Two settlers headed to form more farming communities. Not sure what the deal with Farm 2 is, since it doesn't fit in Bede's 3 working irrigated grasslands/3 scientists plan. Also not sure about stunting growth of farm towns by making workers -- not too late to change that. Two foreign settler pairs in our territory, an Egyptian one SE of Scoutsville and a Babylonian one N of Caughnawaga. Galley healing up in North Pole, one more just out of the canal, and three more in various states of on the way. Cleo still lacks Engr, so Bede can make a deal if he likes. I think it is clear I was very uncertain what to do about research, so I am eager to hear everyone else's feedback on the choices I made. I hope I wasn't too verbose in my reasoning, but I can hardly expect you to comment on my thoughts if you don't know them.

The core:
eotinb_pic15_core.jpg


Old McDonald's Farm:
eotinb_pic16_oldmcdonalds.jpg


Out West:
eotinb_pic17_outwest.jpg


Southern border:
eotinb_pic18_southernborder.jpg


The view from space. Even if we had the Great Wall, you couldn't really see it from here:
eotinb_pic19_viewfromafar.jpg


Edit: The save. I'm the guy who sends emails with attachments but often forgets the attachments.
 
Farm2 was right on one of Bede's dots in the vicinity of the farms, maybe he intended for it to be a productive city?
 
I think the town currently named Farm2 would make more sense as semi-productive, like you suggested GM. I didn't mean to sound critical in my comment in the summary, more just wondering out loud.
 
Farm2 was out there as a buffer town. All those plains make food surpluses hard to reach until rails.

Markets and libraries in the core towns good, barracks not so good unless the town will be shield long (at least one forest and a couple of BGs or a hill or two). In the MA with Feudalism the shield target for a military town is 15 for MW in two, 14 for maces in three, 10 for MW in three or maces in four. If the town can't reach those numbers it does not need a barracks, a library and market will do just fine and it can build artillery (trebs, cannons, etc).

I always make the first build in any town a worker, then put him to work on the necessary improvements, and keep him in the town's radius until the improvements are done. Having that grass and wheat irrigated will grow the town plenty quick (remember there are three fpt in the town center)

On the research and trading front I am inclined to just shut it off and make no deals until we have more contacts. Beaker cost for known techs is higher the fewer contacts you have that know it and the fewer opportunities exist for brokering around. So delaying on Feudalism was a good choice. It fits right in there to the first rule of trading 1) Do we need it? and my answer is at the moment and these prices probably not. Once we meet more people that have it the price will come down. Another option is to go to the max with research on Feudalism then pick it up for chump change once we meet someone who does not have it, and who doesn't know someone who does.

@Own - I built the sword, I like swords to support an active defense. An exposed MW is dead meat.
 
Roster check:

gmaharriet -- in the queue
cleverhandle
General Mayhem
eotinb -- no fatal errors
Bede -- ready to clean up after me again

I want to let everyone know that I'll be travelling probably from Sat the 8th to Wed the 19th. During that time I will have internet access but not civ access, so please skip me until I'm back home. I'm going to visit my family in Louisiana, so unless there is yet another hurricane, I should be able to check in regularly and marvel at the progress you'll make without me holding you back.
 
eotinb said:
the progress you'll make without me holding you back.
Hey, I thought holding us back was MY job! ;) I guess Bede's up next and then me. After that I may be kinda iffy next week too as I'm getting a new computer and will have to reload all my programs, including Civ, MapStat, CAII, and my save files. I am computerly challenged when it comes to that sort of thing...no understanding of the inner workings.

Have a good trip, Brad. I hope your family made it through the hurricanes without too much damage. We'll eagerly await your return. :)
 
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We are drifting behind just a little. Gotta get the boats moving

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This is going to be a very important relationship as Iron is worth more than anything else on the planet

Anyway, Theology will get us Feudalism
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And I buy some Dyes from Alex. Hold onto this one too, as once lost it may never be regained, depending on what the other guys hold.

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-More-
 
Part II

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It is Shaka and then he sells us to Xerxes.

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Who will probably sells us to the other guys we don't know over there.

Markets and libraries are coming on stream nicely. Bedeville and Sallie are mking troopers right now. The farming towns are taxmen and building trebs. The citizen assignments out there need to be fiddled almost every turn to keep the optimum mix.

Research is shut off right now as everybody in the other continent knows Printing Press. Assess which side of the pond has the most of what we want, then do the best you can to get it all. Contacts are very valuable right now and will hold their value continent to continent till Navigation I think. So spend hem wisely. Just be aware that once you sell our side to somebody on the other side the contact will get sold around.

Workers need to finish watering the east then get back to the center, There is still lots of work to do there.

gmaharriet -- up for some serious horse trading
cleverhandle - on deck
General Mayhem
eotinb -- no fatal errors
Bede -- no clean up necessary
 
I haven't looked at the save yet, but "got it".

Summarizing, we keep the iron trading going with Alex for techs every 20 turns? and also continue getting dyes from him so he doesn't trade them away to another civ. MM and water the farms, then do core improvements. Meet more civs.

Now, for some questions...

Bede said:
It is Shaka and then he sells us to Xerxes.

Who will probably sells us to the other guys we don't know over there.


Research is shut off right now as everybody in the other continent knows Printing Press. Assess which side of the pond has the most of what we want, then do the best you can to get it all. Contacts are very valuable right now and will hold their value continent to continent till Navigation I think. So spend hem wisely. Just be aware that once you sell our side to somebody on the other side the contact will get sold around.

I never research PP and don't usually get it at all until very late game as an incidental with some sort of other trade. I'll have to look up what it even does, but I can infer from what you said, it allows us to trade contacts. If Shaka has already sold contact with us to Xerxes, is it not likely Xerxes will sell it to others? And the civs on our continent already know us, so what's left to sell?...contact with our local civs to the other continent and visa versa? If I sell to 1, should I sell to all at the same time? What sort of value does contact have? 1 tech? 2 techs? gold?

I'm looking for guidance, because I haven't sold a contact since playing Chieftain on vanilla, and I may even have given it away for free back then, not seeing any value in it (was really green back then). Or did you want me to just bumble my way through?

I'll go take a look at the save and return in a bit.
 
AK, I'm curious why you say that. Its been my experience that the AI will allow a trade to keep going at the same price if you just hit accept without trying to go into the negotiation screen, but if you go into the negotiation screen prepare to pay the piper.
 
something DocT told me. Less chance of them declining to renew the deal or renegotiating it. You may be right about
you just hit accept without trying to go into the negotiation screen
 
lurker's comment: yes, it is true, do not go into negotiation, well, sometimes, I once got 3 lux + 1 strategic resource from one lux
 
I too use always renegotiate deals and hit "accept" if I still want it. I checked the Preferences in looking at the save, and I believe Bede must have it set that way too or I would have noticed it being off.

Now, if I can just remember my questions. My computer freezes if I have both Civ and CFC open at the same time. (can hardly wait for my new one next week).

There is a settler in Napa Valley and no more abuilding, and there are 3 escorted settlers in our territory, so it looks like our last chance to settle. Was he supposed to go NE to the mountain/tundra area or W to the far end of the land bridge? I'd say land bridge. There is one other area open N of ?Venerable Valley?, but the library will fill in most of that area, and the settler is already beyond it anyway.

I see we are massing MW's in our southern border towns. I assume that is to continue, but the Babs are E of our farm towns. Should we protect that area? Our unit costs are already pretty high, and we are building lots of cats and workers. At what point do we stop?

We are building some courts in the S and harbors in the N...then what? libs to expand territory and for research (even though we are not yet at 10gpt)? or units to protect ourselves? It looks like we are watering everything around the farms, including the BG tiles. Do we want to build libs there even if slowly?

Should we hook up the 3rd iron for additional trading? Do I trade for PP as soon as someone is willing to make a deal? I still need more info on what contacts are worth.

Sorry for all the detailed questions. Playing at Regent, I've always been ahead in techs, score, land area and just about everything else at this point with a decent start and unless I've done something really dumb. I'm having a pretty good personal Monarch game atm, but not done yet, and it's not nearly as hard. If I win, it will be my first Monarch win. I still have soooo much to learn. :blush:

Edit: Just remembered another question. Should the town(s) on the land bridge W of Panama City also be watered and used for tax collectors or scientists? The corruption level is likely to be pretty high there.

Edit redux: Just noticed a stupid comment I made. Wouldn't be the first time. :rolleyes:
 
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