TGOM 02 - The Grumpy Old Monk and the Ancient Crone go to Alpha Centauri

Got it. I've got a nice 3-day weekend ahead of me, so I should get my turns in sometime tomorrow or early Saturday at the latest.

Unfortunate about Smelly, but it looks like we'll survive...
 
gmaharriet said:
Question that applies to both this game and mine... I'm very stingy with later age techs to keep the AI from being at military parity, so I've been able to bomb at will, and I still have ~20,000 gold for running negative research when necessary. Is that only because I'm playing Monarch? If I'd been playing Emperor, would that have made my approach impossible?

Anyway, unless something goes drastically wrong, I'll soon have my first Monarch win. After playing Civ for almost a year it's about time, doncha think? :p

Nice. Glad I played a small role in your forward move.

To your question: Probably. There is a big change from Monarch to Emperor in terms of the AI's R&D capabilities, mostly related to the production discount and the AI trade rate premium, on the AI's side of the equation; then the happiness issues on the human side, I would posit. At Emperor and above being ahead in tech and having a large cash balance is more difficult. What I find happens is that in order to maintain a tech lead you have to sell what you learn and keep selling it to either get cash flow or luxuries.
 
gmaharriet said:
I played completely peacefully until I discovered that Hammi had all of MY aluminum, so I built some airfields (per scoutsout's suggestion) and now I have 2 aluminum. :smug: and about 15 more specialist farms. :D
Nice! Glad to hear the campaign went well. :thumbsup:
I'm very stingy with later age techs...still have ~20,000 gold for running negative research when necessary. Is that only because I'm playing Monarch? If I'd been playing Emperor, would that have made my approach impossible?
Here I'm going to beg to differ a bit with Brother Bede, but not in a bad way. It is possible (by no means easy) to out-research the AI at Emperor level. I've even done it at Demi-God level (once). Before I go further - you need to understand that this approach runs counter to the goal of this particular game - which is a spaceship launch as early as possible. Wars will inevitably slow the research pace.

Okay, so how'd I outresarch the AI? By smacking the AI around pretty good, and reducing the number of AI Civs to one.
:hammer:

The basic reason the AI research so well is the discount. Techs are cheaper for them, they trade them cheaper, and 'known' techs are discounted for being known...and the discounts compound, and thinking about it makes my head hurt. Just know this: The AI research machine is a cartel. The only way to reduce the power of a cartel is to reduce its membership.

If you'd like to see this in action, you can have a look at my most recent game. I finished this up last night (along with a bottle of Merlot) for a lauch date around 1690... which is not as well as you guys are doing with your game...

Some notes on my little game:
  • You'll see much of what I've learned from Bede applied here.
  • Things aren't quite optimized... the save is as I left it several nights ago, and I was ... distracted when I finished that session. It might make good practice for timing pre-builds and such.
  • I wasn't kidding about seeing things "in action". You won't be able to see how far ahead of Russia you are in Techs until you handle this small matter of a war with Cathy.
  • Oh yeah... there might be some good practice for air combat and air defense in here too. Bombers on her mainland can probably reach parts of the Iroquois mainland.
As this one approached endgame I saw something I've never seen before at this level. I saw about 40 or 50 Cossacks impale themselves on the muzzle of a full-strength, 4-unit Modern Armor Army. Of course...the weakened MA army underneath it had just sacked a Russian city... so Cathy was understandably distraught.

Hammer on team! I want to see how badly you best me on the lauch date!
 
scoutsout said:
Here I'm going to beg to differ a bit with Brother Bede, but not in a bad way. It is possible (by no means easy) to out-research the AI at Emperor level. I've even done it at Demi-God level (once). Before I go further - you need to understand that this approach runs counter to the goal of this particular game - which is a spaceship launch as early as possible. Wars will inevitably slow the research pace.

Okay, so how'd I outresarch the AI? By smacking the AI around pretty good, and reducing the number of AI Civs to one.

Ah, this is where the game is really afoot. Scout reduces the cost of tech by reducing the AI, which has the interesting effect of lengthening the date to launch because it slows down rather than increases the rate at which knowledge is gained.

Balderdash, you say!

Let us reason together. With the right infrastructure, oriented toward high population and research (that means no commercial buildings other than marketplaces for the happiness kicker and libraries/universiteis everywhere it makes sense and everybody working higj commerce fields and a good sized specialist plantation you can get to 4 turn research early in the MA and hold that pace till you get to the Modern Era. You need lots of luxuries (controlled or bought) and a big military so you can take whatever can't be bought. Then you use the power of your population to drive research at 100%, and you sell what you learn to the other guys. With five or six other nations on the map, all good sized, and economically healthy, you can collect enough in cash and income to hold the pace without any pain.

As the map consolidates the beaker cost goes down, but the amount of money in the world which can be gained from agressive trading also goes down as your monopoly tech are worth less in the market place. For my most recent fast finish launch (Emperor on a standard map) everybody was still standing but I had two really strong (economicallly) neighbors. They basically powered the end game research by paying me lots and lots of money for those expensive late IA and Moderan Era techs and I supported their economies by shipping them luxuries, but keeping strategic resources in my own hands.

It is this kind of thing that keeps me in this game...there are lots of ways to skin the same cat.
 
Well, if I happen to be up when we finally build the last part in this game, someone else is going to have to launch. I finished my Monarch SS game in 1680, click on "launch"...and got this. I did keep a screenie of both the completed SS and the last turn showing SS Stasis Chamber at 1 turn, but :cry:
 

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@gma,

Nice launch date. Even if you didn't. Had a similar experience some time ago when the parts got finished but the launch button never appeared.
 
Executive Summary: I finally get some licks in.

Pre-Turn - Move some MechInfs to cover the towns near the Persian transport - there could be Marines in there. Probably not, given the AI's stupidity about invasions, but you never know. Everything else looks good.

317 (1635 AD) - Various MA builds complete and build new MA's to follow. Xerxes fails a spy plant in our capital. The Persian "fleet" waits patiently without unloading, and gets sunk by our bombers. Completed MA's fan out to cover empty coastal towns (again, probably unnecessary). The fleet starts out for Persian soil and will get there in 3.

318 - Clever Springs United Nations -> Cruise Missile. Keep spewing out the MA's. Would we like to hold elections for Secretary General? Ah... no.

319 - Nuke Power comes in, but even running full-bore on research with all specialists set to scientists we're stuck at 5 turns on The Laser. Bugger. Go back through and tweak the rate and specialists some more. We end up at 80% research and -91 gpt. The fleet arrives off the Persian shore, but lacks the movement to land units until next turn. Bombers awake and bomb out the Oil near Intombe. Xerxes has one other oil source, but it's in the small town of Dallas in the previously American island. Unless he manages to complete a harbor there, he should be oil-less for the remainder of the game. Remaining Bombers hit Umfolozi, but don't make any headway against the MechInf there. The lone Jet Fighter on the Carrier runs Air Superiority.

320 - Bring it on, baby...

manhattan.jpg


Salamanca Thrusters -> ICBM. Bedeville Manhattan -> ICBM (maybe a prebuild, maybe not). Clever Springs Cruise Missile -> ICBM. Xerxes fails a spy plant again. Persia is willing to negotiate, but I think it will be more fun to pay him back for razing Smelly. Switch VValley to ICBM, again possibly as a prebuild for one of the final parts. The fleet unloads at Umfolozi, and the boats and bombers manage to redline the MechInf and TOW inside. Too bad we can't attack with the troops until next turn. The workers have nothing else significant to do at this point, so fortify them in stacks of 10 near Salamanca in case something comes up. Similarly, every coastal town has a unit in it now, so any future MA's will sit near Salamanca.

321 - I chat with Xerxes to taunt him and notice that he's still got oil. Unfortunate, but not really worth worrying about at this point. Upon further inspection, I see that while Dallas has no harbor, another nearby town does. He also has lots of cash, so if he ever does manage to plant a spy, we'll want to be prepared for sabotage. But at the moment, he has no parts even started. Hammi has five in progress, but none completed. Hammi is back Fission, Nuke Power, and Satellites. Persia is back Nuke Power, Superconductor, SynFibers, and Satellites. Two of the cruisers escort the Transports back home to get artillery - we're close enough that the transports end next to Troy, so we can load this turn and drop off in two more. The battleship and remaining cruisers bombard first, and the follow-up by the bombers finishes off both the TOW and the MechInf, allowing our fearless troops to stroll casually into Umfolozi before burning it to the ground. Remaining bombers start on Intombe and hit the Barracks there, and the fleet moves around the horn to get better position on the next Persian cities. The rest of the forces move ahead to Intombe, and two MA's start the attack (I kinda forgot we had the army). One is lightly damaged and kills a TOW, the other falls to the wounded MechInf. Now I remember we have a Tank army and use that to wipe out the MechInf and the Tank waiting underneath it. Intombe burns. The rest of the MA's take cover under the Tank army. Back at home, load up 3 transports with artillery and the rest with a selection of other goodies.

322 - Babs complete Storage/Supply, their first SS part. But wait, out of the fog, a lone figure appears!

modern_barb.jpg


I consider bombing him, but figure it would more amusing just to watch him. Unfortunately, he doesn't end up doing very much. Harriet Bay starts an ICBM. The ground forces rest for a turn, since a couple need to heal and the artillery and fleet are still en route. A Bab deal just ended, so I sell Hammi Fission for 760g + 141gpt.

323 - Babs complete the Engine. The transports unload their cargo, and the ground troops prepare for more raping and pillaging next turn.

324 - Babylon and Persia sign a peace treaty. We'll see about that... A single Persian bomber appears to hassle our army. I give Hammi some Coal to put him back at war with Xerxes. War whore... While I'm at it, sign an alliance with Shaka - perhaps you can see where this is heading :). The Laser comes in. Adjust specialists to get Robotics in 5 at 100%, -327 gpt. Eotin Bay takes the Party Lounge, and will finish in 3. Lurkersville switches to a Palace for the Stasis Chamber. It has 62 shields already (at 62 spt), so it will be good to go by the time Robotics rolls in. We'll have plenty of ICBM's as backups in case something goes wrong. Boats bombard Isandhlwana for a few hits. The artillery take up a position in range of both Isandhlwana and Tugela and let loose a shell to redline the last defender. The offshore bombers move in for the kills, but none of the seven manage to score a hit. No matter, as an army and an MA finish the job, promoting the MA and temporarily keeping the city in order to keep everything in position by using free rail movement. The artillery turn their attention to Tugela and redline its two defenders. One MA finishes off the first defender handily, but the second MA is destroyed. A third MA finishes the job and I keep Tugela - you'll notice that its position provides outstanding potential for evil-doing.

tugela.jpg


At this point, I consider handing off the game to Bede, but then I figure "Hey, sometimes you've just got to treat yourself." One more turn to go, and it should be a fun one. Back at home, I tell the nuclear engineers to put in some OT. The ground troops in Persia split up and occupy the mountain tiles two spots from Persepolis and Pasargardae. The transports run back and fetch a couple more MA's. The newly conquered Persian towns are abandoned.

325 (1675 AD) -

ready.jpg


Hey, Xerxes, what's that behind you?

after.jpg


No, honestly, I have no idea what happened to your two most important cities. Must have been Shaka - I saw him playing with some uranium behind the U.N. You should really talk with him about that.


Here you go Bede - bring her on home.
 
:rotfl:
cleverhandle said:
Persia is willing to negotiate, but I think it will be more fun to pay him back for razing Smelly.
I think it was at this point that I just knew this turnlog would be well worth the read. Nicely done! :thumbsup: (I need a 'golf clap' smiley....)
 
Good going, Clever! I sure wouldn't like you wanting revenge on me. :p
 
Got it.

Way to go out in a blaze of glory.

The thought of Shaka playing with pitchblende...... :lol: :scan:
 
Bede said:
The thought of Shaka playing with pitchblende...... :lol: :scan:
I'm trying to remember which game we were in that you explained your meaning there..."that funny green stuff that makes really big fireworks..."
 
Bede said:
Way to go out in a blaze of glory.
Hehe. I should probably point out that I *did* check and notice that Xerxes is missing aluminum, so he won't be building any ICBM's to lob at us. And Shaka and Hammi are MA'd, of course, so no retaliation there. I don't usually go in for nukes, but it looks like we can get out of this one without taking any in return. Quite satisfying, really...
 
The devil made me do it.....:satan:

1695_01.jpg


1695_02.jpg


1700_01.jpg



Nice game all the way around. And a more than respectable finish date. (My personal best at Emperor is 1620).

Do we think we can beat this date at Demi-god? If you are up for it I would be.
 
Good for us!!! :goodjob: And thank you, Bede, for your help with all my questions.

Do we think we can beat this date at Demi-god? If you are up for it I would be.
Demi-god??? :dubious:

Same team for a training game? I think a lot of folks are pretty involved with Civ4, but I'm not even close to being tired of Civ3 yet. If you've got the patience, I've got the time. :p
 
No, honestly, I have no idea what happened to your two most important cities. Must have been Shaka - I saw him playing with some uranium behind the U.N. You should really talk with him about that.
:rotfl: Thanks for nuke screenies :D

I noticed you mentioned being worried about marines. We had (and probably still do) a spy with persia, so to find out if they have marines or even another transport all you would have needed to do would be go to F3 and choose persia from the list of countries, and then you could see what units they have, just not where they are.

I'd definitely be interested in trying the same thing on DG, but the only problem is that I will be gone for 3 weeks during December. If that's not an acceptable skip period I understand, and will lurk the next one, but otherwise I'm definitely game.
 
I will put up a new thread tonight.

I'm thinking Celts, standard continents, restless barbarians, 70% water and an older world. I will roll more than one start to make sure we have water handy. (DG is just too tough without a little tweaking on the player's part)


@scout, you want in?

Tentative roster:

gmaharriet
General Mayhem
Bede

eotinb and cleverhandle have first dibs on the open spots.

It won't be a training game, just an opportunity to get Brennus into space with the help of a few friends and a little coaching from TGOM and the lurker's gallery.
 
lurker's comment: Awesome game everyone! That was a treat. I look forward to seeing the DG game especially if Scout plays.
 
Whomp said:
lurker's comment: Awesome game everyone! That was a treat. I look forward to seeing the DG game especially if Scout plays.
@Scout It would be really fun to have you join us and share your interesting "ideas"!!! :)
 
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