TGOM 02 - The Grumpy Old Monk and the Ancient Crone go to Alpha Centauri

[gmaharriet]

@gmH, take another look at F1 before hitting enter.

Too late...I'm done. And I didn't start the war because we had most of our units in the south and badly injured, and cannons and slaves to be escorted back home. I stopped with the beginning of turn 10 for the next player to prosecute the war. I'm sorry if I've disappointed you.

Here is the turnlog from where I left off last night after turn 2:

IT - Cav attacks Sparta killing 1 cav. Our GA ends. Steam Power now in 7 at -55.

3. 880ad - Clever Spgs Cav -> cav, Napa Valley lib -> market, Crone Town bank -> Uni. Zulu are building Magellan's. MM some towns. Move units S. Our SOD is just outside of Eridu.

IT - Our SOD is attacked by 1 crusader and (I think) 4 cavs and we each lose 2. Scoutsville MDI -> MDI, Caughnawaga Musket -> Musket. Greeks start Bach's.

4. 890ad - worker moves. more troops south. Attack Eridu. 5 our of 7 cannon hit. 1 cav retreats, 1 kills rifle, promotes and retreats, 1 kills a cav, another kills rifle and promotes, bring in another cav from Sparta who kills another cav, and our last redlined cav takes Eridu, which is burned. Pillage saltpeter. End alliance and ROP with Cleo. Make peace with Hammi for WM and 41gpt. Alex become polite upon receiving Sparta as a gift. We buy dyes for incense, 100g and 18gpt. He would have traded straight up for iron, but that could make him more dangerous to us later. We now have Steam in 6 turns, 228g and -23gpt.

IT - Bab and Egyptian units begin their ways home. Farm4 cannon -> cannon

5. 900ad - begin moving troop home. worker moves.

IT - Sallie cav -> cav, Mayhem cav -> cav, Smelly cav -> cav. Babs and Zulu start Bach's. Renegotiate spices and gems from Shaka for silks, incense and Magnetism. Sell Magnets to Greece for Music Theory, WM and 27g (all he's got).

6. 910ad - not much, just worker moves and moving military home, sending badly wounded toward nearest rax. Steam in 4 at -10.

IT - Egypt and Babs make peace. Tyendanaga bank -> cannon. Cleo starts Bach's. Babs start Shakespeare and Newton's. Zulu start Shakes.

7. 920ad - more moving military home...some still on the way and some wounded finally reach a rax. I'm just not comfortable declaring on Egypt until our units are home and healthy.

IT - Zulu want to trade WM's. ok. Clever Spgs cav -> cav, Waystation worker -> rax (could be changed or rushed)

8. 930ad - still moving units home...only a couple left escorting cannons and slave workers. workers have been improving roads near Egypt. Steam in 2 at -14.

IT - HB cav -> cav, Lurkersville market -> cannon. Zulu start Newton's.

9. 940ad cannon almost to Waystation. All but 1 cav healed. Steam in 1 and lowered sci to 50% at +153.

IT - Steam - Industrialization in 8. Eotin Bay cav -> cav, Farm1 settler -> cannon. Babs start Smith's.

10 - 950ad We have NO coal!!! Greece has the only supplies on our continent...1 near Knossos, 1 near Pharsalos and 1 under Zariqum.

I'm going to stop here with no moves made on this turn. I hope nobody is upset with me for putting off war to get our units home and in shape. I'll let the next player decide how and where to attack Egypt. There are 6 cannons, 2 slaves and an elite cav SW of Waystation (finally in our own territory). The 4 Egyptian cities are still small. An Egyptian worker is still improving one of our mountains even without an ROP...nice of her. Beware the Egyptian MDI near Salarmanca...maybe we can get Cleo to declare by asking him to leave.

We have 2 settlers, 28 workers, 8 archers, 1 spear, 3 swords, 4 LB's, 5 muskets, 4 knights, 28 cavs, 12 cannon, 2 galleys, 7 MW's, 1 MDI and 1 treb.

My new computer is ready to be picked up early tomorrow, so I'm not sure how much I'll be on until I get it set up...tomorrow night if all goes well, but it may be longer as a lot of setup will be needed.

Pics to follow. Here's the save:

 

[gmaharriet]

The front just before the Battle of Eridu, 890 AD

Bab Peace Treaty, 890 AD

Dye purchase from Greece, 890 AD

Renew spice/gem trade with Zulu in 910 AD.

Current situation beginning of 950 AD.

 

[Bede]

you have had the two toughest rows to how in this game so far and are acquitting yourself well. Clever is well set up to crush the Egyptian and get us coal.



cleverhandle - can you poach coal from the Greeks and crush Cleo?
General Mayhem - waiting
eotinb -- no fatal errors
Bede -- ready to clean up after me again
gmaharriet -- howed a tough row and got it done

 

[cleverhandle]

Alex become polite upon receiving Sparta as a gift. We buy dyes for incense, 100g and 18gpt. He would have traded straight up for iron, but that could make him more dangerous to us later.

I would have traded the iron. There's little value to iron militarily at this point, and without it Alex won't be able to rail his territory - rails that will make our future repossession of it more efficient. The budget savings would be nice, too.

Renegotiate spices and gems from Shaka for silks, incense and Magnetism.

There were several trade options available here - why did you choose this one? I'm not saying it's a bad trade, just wondering about your thought process.

IT - Steam - Industrialization in 8.

I think we should all discuss this before turns continue. Since we don't have coal for a while yet, we're not going to be getting any factories. I would be inclined to make the trade for Medicine and head for Elec/RP. That would make our workers more efficient and let us start getting some big `ol artillery stacks working. Once we have artillery, rails, and (hopefully) rubber and infantry we can proceed to take over the continent with relative impunity.

We have NO coal!!! Greece has the only supplies on our continent.

Drat. I hate not having coal more than any other resource. Perhaps that extra iron can be saved for the purpose.

I'll let the next player decide how and where to attack Egypt.

On that note, I'm going to need a swap. I won't be able to give the game the time it deserves until Sunday, and I'm guessing you all will be eager to continue.

 

[Bede]

Roster rearrangement:


General Mayhem - can you poach coal from the Greeks and crush Cleo?
eotinb -- out until the 19th
Bede -- ready to clean up after me again
gmaharriet -- howed a tough row and got it done
cleverhandle - swapped with the General

Our current monopoly on Steam Power gives us a lot of trading power. And if we work the war with Cleo right we can poach coal from Alexander before he even knows he lost it.

 

[cleverhandle]

cleverhandle - can you poach coal from the Greeks?

I didn't even check the map - is the coal poachable without force?

Funny... I just coal-poached in the Sumerian game I finished last night.

 

[Bede]

Rearranged roster rearrangement:


General Mayhem - can you poach coal from the Greeks and crush Cleo?
cleverhandle - swapped with the General
eotinb -- out until the 19th
Bede -- cutting and pasting
gmaharriet -- howed a tough row and got it done

 

[gmaharriet]

I would have traded the iron. There's little value to iron militarily at this point, and without it Alex won't be able to rail his territory - rails that will make our future repossession of it more efficient. The budget savings would be nice, too.

I didn't want him to have rails when we get around to attacking him or to be able to build any units that do require it.

I think we should all discuss this before turns continue. Since we don't have coal for a while yet, we're not going to be getting any factories. I would be inclined to make the trade for Medicine and head for Elec/RP. That would make our workers more efficient and let us start getting some big `ol artillery stacks working. Once we have artillery, rails, and (hopefully) rubber and infantry we can proceed to take over the continent with relative impunity.

I was following the guidelines set earlier when Bede said, "We have a good shot at getting Steam, Industrialization and then SciMeth and ToE and its goodies."

Drat. I hate not having coal more than any other resource.

Me too!!! But I really didn't want the Greeks getting rails, and they would have a few turns to build them if they get Steam while we're fighting Cleo and waiting for the trades to expire. And once the trades do expire and we declare on them, we couldn't trade for coal with them.

If we do take out Egypt, all 3 sources of coal will be very close to our new borders, assuming Hammi doesn't take Greece out first. He doesn't have any coal either.

 

[General Mayhem]

I can crush the egyptians, but I don't plan on blowing our rep so clever will probably get to do the coal poaching. I'll probably be able to play either this evening or sometime Saturday.

 

[eotinb]

Could someone expain poaching to me? In other news, looking forward to taking out Cleo. And excellent row-hoeing Harriet.

 

[General Mayhem]

Poaching=stealing a resource any way possible, if I can I will see about poaching it by border expansion, otherwise clever will get to poach by force when the dyes deal expires.

 

[eotinb]

Why not trade for it, since Alex has so much coal? There is some talk about trading him Steam Power anyway and clever's medium-term plan to take him out would give time for the deal to expire.

 

[Bede]

There is a third way using a combat settler. Look very carefully at the location of Alex'x northernmost coal deposit. The timing on when you hit the westernmost Egyptian town is crucial as you don't want the Greek borders to expand too far. Think about how to do it.

And if all else fails you can buy it from Alex, true.

 

[scoutsout]

Look very carefully at the location of Alex'x northernmost coal deposit. The timing on when you hit the westernmost Egyptian town is crucial as you don't want the Greek borders to expand too far. Think about how to do it.

Some people think comfortably inside the box. Others do thier best thinking outside the box. Once in a while, you meet somone who likes to throw the box in the garbage can every time they get a new toy. I like to make friends with people in this last group.

Something tells me when Brother Bede said "poach" he had a more subtle meaning than simply "take".

If I may offer my $0.02: Take your time and think it through. Play slowly, deliberately. You might see something you didn't see before.

...and by all means, on!

 

[General Mayhem]

Whoops, didn't think of that third option Bede, and you posted after I had played to that point. I need some clarification on something before I make a trading descision, do we take a rep hit if someone is paying us gpt and then get wiped out by another civ?

Edit: NVM, found Microbe's article and according to him it doesn't give us a rep hit.

 

[TimBentley]

lurker's comment: There would never be a rep hit only if someone is paying you. In addition, if you're paying gpt when they're wiped out, there is no rep hit. There is only a rep hit if you're paying them resources or you break an alliance by destroying the civ yourself.

 

[General Mayhem]

Turn log
Executive summary: I think I made a couple mistakes here, but nothing un-recoverable

Turn 0 (950 A.D.)

Larsa at size 2 with no chance of growth unless lux is raised is building a settler, so change that to a harbor. Scoutsville was building a MDI so change it to a Cav. Decide there's no better time than now for a war, so
give Cleo the boot order and:

Woohoo, war happiness Take out the longbow near salamanca, then lose a cav against a pike at El-Armana. Kill 2 spears at Asyut and it becomes purple, kill a pike at Byblos, then lose a cav to a spear, then kill the spear and archer and Byblos also becomes purple. Start both of them on temples due to high nearby greek culture. Cash rush a Galleon in Panama city since we kind of forgot about the island egyptian city of Lisht nearby and I want the egyptians extinct so that fliprisk will be non-existant. I went through all the farm cities and discovered that changing all of them to scientists would not reduce the number of turns until Industrialization, but changing them all to taxmen also had no effect on the turns required and cut the budget over-run down to single digits. Take a look at potential trades: There is a definite two-fer avaliable with Medicine and Nationalism. Decide to go shopping. Greece is the ONLY civ that will sell us Nationalism for any price, so make that deal, picking up their entire 1 gold treasury, WM, and TM in the deal, they won't pay GPT and I don't want them to anyway. Then dial up Hammi and Persia to see who will give us the best deal on Medicine, and the winner is Persia who will trade us Medicine, WM, and TM for Steam and WM. Persia and Hammi already have Commie and Facism. Since Hammi's little butt-buddy Persia will sell him Steam for a song I decide to get what I can out of him for it, and surprisingly he's willing to pay us 57GPT, 237 gold, WM, and TM for it, so I make that deal to bankrupt him. If he declares to get out of it oh well, we can handle him. Thanks to Hammi's generous contribution I can move the research slider up to 90% to get Industrialization due in 7 at a 5gpt deficit. Lose a MDI in the north trying to take out a spear (6-3) Finally ready to end turn.

Turn 1 (960 A.D.)

Salamanca builds Cav, starts bank, Tyendenaga finishes cannon, starts University, Panama City finishes Galleon, starts Aquaduct again. Lost a cav to a longbow during the IBT (6-4). Bombard El-Armana, but only get 3 hits out of 10 or so cannons. Kill a pike, a spear, and then an elite cav kills a reg spear and:

He's going to become a Cav army. With that win El-Armana turns purple, and then I kill the LB that killed our cav during the IBT (10-4).

Turn 2 (970 A.D.)

Lose an archer in the north to a LB (10-5). Smelly Sticks builds Cav, starts bank. The army kills 2 spears and a LB at Abydos turning it purple (13-5), so we can now build the Military Academy and Heroic Epic if we so choose.

Turn 3 (980 A.D.)

Kill a longbow defensivly (14-5). Mayhem City builds Cav, starts University, Clever Springs finishes Cav, starts Bank, Caughnawaga finishes rifle, starts Aquaduct. Kill 2 spears in the city up north (yes, I didn't pay attention to its name) and it autorazes. (16-5) Start moving a few Cav's up north to put on the galleon to put Cleo out of our misery. Realize I made a mistake by joining both settlers back into our cities because of the autoraze and start looking for a city to pull one out of, end up choosing Farm3 due in 4, so cash rush the last few shields at a cost of 16 gold.

Turn 4 (990 A.D.)

Start Bedeville on Bank since they are now maintinence free and income just shot up 24gpt Owego finishes court, starts market, Farm3 builds settler, starts cannon. Massive global wonder cascades to either JS Bach's or
Newtons, but neither is built yet. Get 4 Cav's loaded up on the galleon.

Turn 5 (1000 A.D.)

Lurkersville finishes cannon, starts barracks. Offload 4 cav's at Lisht, someone start taps please Blow most of our treasury (~400 gold) on cash rushing temples in Asyut and Byblos to cut fliprisk down.

Turn 6 (1010 A.D.)

Spain comes calling and wants to swap territory maps, I say sure since she's not willing to do anything other than swap straight up. Venerable Valley finishes bank, starts cav, Byblos finishes temple, starts library, Asyut finishes temple, starts library, North Pole finishes library, starts market, we get another palace expansion. Manage to turn research back to 80% to get Industrialization next turn for + ~60 gpt. Kill 2 spears in Lisht:

Let us have a moment of silence for poor cleo, NOT Final tally for the war is 18-5, and we gained 5 slaves. Lisht autorazed, so I leave 2 cav's parked on the island until we can get a settler out there so that we don't have to clear it off again later.

Turn 7 (1020 A.D.)

Everybody say goodbye to spain... Industrialization comes in, and after playing with the farms discover I can get Electricity due in 7 at -25 gpt, but with only 146 in the treasury I need to figure out a way to finance this, so its time to go shopping again. Trade Abe WM for 20 gold, getting 1/2 of the cash difference we needed. Trade Spain WM for 21 gold and 1gpt, this should hopefully enable us to finance the research burn, counting rather heavily on being able to turn things back on the last turn... HB and Eotinbay both finish cavs and start another, Napa Valley finishes market and starts settler to fill in the island where Lisht was, Farm6 finishes cannon, starts another, we get yet another palace expansion.

Turn 8 (1030 A.D.)

Scoutsville Cav>Cav. This is one of the tighter research burns I've done, I'm having to keep playing with the specialists to keep Electricity coming in on schedule without running into a deficit. I'm also having to trade our WM around every turn for 1-10 gold to keep the cash flow working out. I hope the banks that are being built will help with this...

Turn 9 (1040 A.D.)

Caughnawaga finishes Aquaduct, starts market. Wierd, 2 turns came off of Electricity instead of one, I'm not complaining. Figured it out, Scoutsville started working its gold mountain on growth and Babylon researched it but has it at monopoly and won't trade. Found Cattaragus up north. where I autorazed the Egyptian city.

Turn 10 (1050 A.D.)

Byblos's borders expanded, leaving us once again the option of poaching the coal peacefully with a settler, I'll let cleverhandle figure out which city to pull it out of. I'd still like to see a war with Greece though, they need trimming.

Military: We are strong vs Greece, and I've been shifting units down towards the general area of waystation. We only have 1 rifle but since Cav's are still fairly dominant I've kept building them. We need to pull a settler out of somewhere to poach the coal, I'm thinking that smelly might not be a bad location after it finishes its bank.

Research: Electricity due in 3 at -27 gpt, but with enough in the kitty to cover it. We might want to get a TOE prebuild going somewhere, I'm guessing Bedeville would be a good place after it finishes its bank.

Trading: We are up tech's on everyone but Persia and Babylon, and we really need to figure out a way to get those 2 mad at each other. Persia researched Industrialization the turn after Babylon got Electricity and they traded so we don't have anything to trade them right now. The obvious tech to go for after Electricity is Scientific Method. Abe seems to be out of the love triangle now, so its mainly just the 2 scientific monsters we need to worry about.

Clever, I think all the cities are fairly well MM'd, but you'd probably better check them, there might be another scientist somewhere who can become a taxman.

The Save

 

[General Mayhem]

The world in 1050 A.D.

 

[gmaharriet]

Great job, General!!!

Larsa at size 2 with no chance of growth unless lux is raised is building a settler, so change that to a harbor.

I think Bede mentioned that he and I had an IM chat after (I think) my turn 2 (or was it turn 4?). Anyway, he wanted to build a settler in Larsa to disband it and move it 1 tile N/E as a better location. I forgot to mention that in my notes after playing, so there was no way you could know why a settler was being built there. I apologize for omitting that info.

Edited to add: I got my new computer tonight and have been busy reinstalling programs and trying to sort out files. When I went to reinstall vanilla Civ III, I got error messages that my disk was corrupted and could only install the "lite" version. Patched that to 1.29f, then while installing C3C, had a couple of the "movie" files showing as corrupted, but the install completed alright and it's now patched to 1.22 . I tried playing about 25 turns of a new game, and it seemed to be ok, but I hope I don't discover problems later. I've contacted Fireaxis to see about getting my disks replaced, and their customer service is supposed to reply within 4 working days. Then I suppose there will be shipping time. Anyway, by the time my next turn set comes up, I should know if it's playable this way.

 

[scoutsout]

Quick question: How are you guys set for workers? I haven't looked at the save, but looking at the screenshots I see some towns that look like they could use a little more food... like the boost you get when you put rails on irrigated tiles...

If you're short on workers, you may want to peel off the occasional worker from your size 12 cities between infrastructure and unit builds...or peel one off any city that has stopped growing due to lack of food.