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The Afrikaaners (Boers)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - New Civilizations' started by Chamaedrys, Apr 24, 2006.

  1. SvenSlayer

    SvenSlayer Berserkr

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    This is what you originally said, and I was just tactfully trying to tell you that you were wrong.

    Yes, the origins of Afrikaans certainly lie with Dutch, but much has changed, and now, when someone mentions "Afrikaans," that person is referring to an independent language.

    This is an excerpt from Wikipedia:

    "Afrikaans was considered a Dutch dialect until the late 19th century, when it began to be recognised as a distinct language, and it gained equal status with Dutch and English as an official language in South Africa in 1925."

    So, you should have said that Afrikaans was a Dutch dialect.

    And it was the thirteen British colonies in North America that eventually won their independence and became the USA, but I suppose that is just one of the few ways of looking at it, and I'm not an American history buff.

    But you're right about Flemish, and I apologise.
     
  2. Ribannah

    Ribannah Fighter Druid

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    Recognition is often political. Afrikaans did not suddenly move away from Dutch (on the contrary, if anything it got closer because of new waves of Dutch immigrants). Linguistically, it is still as much a dialect as is Gronings or Limburgs. Just like Quebecois is still a French dialect.
    In fact, the 1961 constitution of South Africa (when Afrikaans and English became the official languages) still had a sub-clause stipulating that the word "Afrikaans" was also meant to be referring to the Dutch language.

    Did they call the new nation: "The liberated former British colonies"?
    They won their independence with the help of France and some of the Amerinds. Does that make them French or native?
    Did living within the boundaries of a British colony change your origin?
    Did expanding the USA change the origin of every new citizen into British?
     
  3. SvenSlayer

    SvenSlayer Berserkr

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    It's not really a question of origins. Living within the boundaries of a British colony at that time made you a subject of that nation. So any Indians living within the colonies were "British" and so were the to-be Americans in my opinion (not that it's fair). It was those British colonies that declared their independence. Yes, the Americans were perhaps a mixture of different cultures and nationalities that one could say were united, just as the Afrikaners were, but they were subjects of the British Empire. That was my original point - I didn't mean anything more. And I believe what the Americans called their new nation is irrelevant - not everyone is proud of their colonial heritage.

    BTW - My intent is not to ridicule anyone - I'm just having a conversation.
     
  4. necrolyte

    necrolyte Warlord

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    I dont remember anything about him being a good negotiator, if I remember correctly the Transvaal Free State was desperately close to financial disaster for most of its existance.
     
  5. Matrix

    Matrix CFC Dinosaur Retired Moderator

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    :lol:
    There was Orange Free State and Transvaal (official name was simply: the Republic of South Africa).

    I think it's a wonderful civ! The Kommando Ruiter's are a great call!

    Few suggestions:
    - The name change to Afrikaners, as is mentioned before.
    - Paul Kruger: not financial, because indeed the Transvaal nearly went bankrupt. Instead I'd suggest expansionist. Jan Smuts is ok. :)
    - Remove the nickname "Oom" from the leader list. No other leader has a nickname there, and it's not a commonly known one.
    - Rotate the flag 90° right, since that was done for every flag. Let's stay consistent. :)

    Finally: I would love to see this civ for Warlords!! But my own modding ability level is 0. If this is going to be adapted for Warlords, we need to think about what unique building they'd have. I would also change Paul Kruger's aggressive characteristic to charismatic.
     
  6. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

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    South Africa will be included in CIV Gold 4.0, but it will be the modern nation. I've preserved the UU from this pack because it's very well done.
     
  7. jkp1187

    jkp1187 Unindicted Co-Conspirator

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    A little thread necromancy here. Is there any interest in making this mod BtS compatible?

    I think any unique building for this civ would have to give some sort of bonus with the presence of gold, silver, and/or gems, to reflect the importance of those resources to South Africa. Perhaps a forge-class building along the lines of the Malinese?
     
  8. DJY15

    DJY15 Chieftain

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    Id like for this to be made into Bts too.
    I think a unique building should be a kerk 'church' because religion was/is very important in our culture. It could give more hapiness and culture :dunno:
     
  9. kochman

    kochman Deity

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    Thanks for this!
     
  10. kochman

    kochman Deity

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    Ah, I see this isn't updated...
    I will take a stab at updating it (and I will change a thing or two)...

    I will probably fail miserably, but I will try...
     
  11. rtsrobintje

    rtsrobintje Chieftain

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    I have to correct you here.
    Flemish is NOT a language, it's exactly the same as 'Dutch'. Flemish is more considered a dialect, because every aspect of grammar is exactly the same, just as the words are.
    The only difference is that we (Flemish) use some other words, but they are perfectly understood by people from Holland.

    And Afrikaans is officially a language on it's own , with noticeable differences (like double negation). Flemish is not a language, it's a Dutch dialect.
     
  12. kochman

    kochman Deity

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    As far as my updating it is going... unique building will come after I get it working in general with the new Leader and the same UU that was provided.

    I was leaning towards the UB being either Mineral Mines (to replace the forge?), that would definitely get extra $ out of precious metals.
    The other option is Game Reserve, which replace Grocers, and give health bonus to a some of the same and some different type of resources (such as ivory, deer, bananas, wheat, etc...), as well as some kind of $ bonus.

    Teg is helping me with the coding, and this will be slow going, but I will see it through.
     

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