I always have a hard time dealing with this, and don't really know how to take it. I realize that giving someone tribute gives you good relations with that civ, but sometimes it just gets excessive, and they ask me for favors constantly. However, if I am already friendly with a civ, is there really any point in giving them tribute any further? Also, at what point can I ask for tribute? I can never convince the AI to give me squat, which is kind of unfair because you think they'd also consider the consequences of not doing so and being on bad terms with me. However as soon as I say no to something to an AI Civ they hate my guts and won't have anything to do with me, especially if they don't share my religion.
The AI and the demand for tribute
- Thread starter Manick
- Start date
Morgrad
Attack Rodent
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 367
It's thoroughly unfair - but you're the human, so you get to suck it up and deal with it.
If it's excessive, then concede by giving them 1000 hammers worth of units up the ol' wazoo after you decline their ridiculous demand for that brand-new technology you just beelined that no one else has yet.
For specific answers:
Demands:
Every time you decline a demand you get a -1 diplomatic penalty.
Only once when you accept do you get a +1 bonus (usually also maxing out the +4 "Our trade relations have been fair and forthright")
Tribute:
From a vassal you can demand 1 resource they can't refuse.
From anyone not Friendly or better, it's an arrogant demand (subject to the above penalties)
From anyone Friendly+, there is no penalty, they might just say no.
They will never give you something if they "remember" the last time you asked. They have a % chance per turn of forgetting, and I think it boils down to around a 20-turn wait means you have a great chance of them having forgotten.
Overall, the mechanic is grossly unfair to the human player, but it kinda has to be or we'd abuse it. Speaking of abusing it, asking for money is MUCH more successful than asking for techs - so beg every 20 turns for your friends cash!
If it's excessive, then concede by giving them 1000 hammers worth of units up the ol' wazoo after you decline their ridiculous demand for that brand-new technology you just beelined that no one else has yet.
For specific answers:
Demands:
Every time you decline a demand you get a -1 diplomatic penalty.
Only once when you accept do you get a +1 bonus (usually also maxing out the +4 "Our trade relations have been fair and forthright")
Tribute:
From a vassal you can demand 1 resource they can't refuse.
From anyone not Friendly or better, it's an arrogant demand (subject to the above penalties)
From anyone Friendly+, there is no penalty, they might just say no.
They will never give you something if they "remember" the last time you asked. They have a % chance per turn of forgetting, and I think it boils down to around a 20-turn wait means you have a great chance of them having forgotten.
Overall, the mechanic is grossly unfair to the human player, but it kinda has to be or we'd abuse it. Speaking of abusing it, asking for money is MUCH more successful than asking for techs - so beg every 20 turns for your friends cash!
SnowlyWhite
Emperor
actually:
- each demand you refuse -1
- each demand you accept +1; in addition, you have a meter - the more you *ucked up to them, the more "our trade relations have been fair". This meter goes up to +4. However, you can get this by selling them a tech cheap or whatever, not necesarily by givin' them tribute. This meter also decays with time.
you can ask from pleased and above; accept or not, it won't have any effect. Power, how nice the leader, how good the relations and a couple of other things are factored in them accepting or denyin'. you demand tribute from cautious and below and each demand will get you -1. Basically - "could you spare this for a good friend" means asking, "we demand you give us in tribute" means... tribute.
The frequency with which they ask varies with the leader(from cathy which is 20 turns and a couple of others to... 100 turns or so. Also, the time they forget varies with leader from ghandi who's almost instant to the cranky ones like toku who I don't remember tbh
- each demand you refuse -1
- each demand you accept +1; in addition, you have a meter - the more you *ucked up to them, the more "our trade relations have been fair". This meter goes up to +4. However, you can get this by selling them a tech cheap or whatever, not necesarily by givin' them tribute. This meter also decays with time.
you can ask from pleased and above; accept or not, it won't have any effect. Power, how nice the leader, how good the relations and a couple of other things are factored in them accepting or denyin'. you demand tribute from cautious and below and each demand will get you -1. Basically - "could you spare this for a good friend" means asking, "we demand you give us in tribute" means... tribute.
The frequency with which they ask varies with the leader(from cathy which is 20 turns and a couple of others to... 100 turns or so. Also, the time they forget varies with leader from ghandi who's almost instant to the cranky ones like toku who I don't remember tbh
BalbanesBeoulve
Emperor
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,060
Actually with some civs it's -2. Cathy and Kublai Kahn come to mind. Anybody know the rest? So never be their friend, because you'll soon go from friendly to cautious with all their damn demands.
SnowlyWhite
Emperor
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=3359
on normal speed I'd say you can keep rather good relations normally, ok, if you give in sometimes; on marathon, since they forget harder then they ask for new things, I often find myself having problems.
on normal speed I'd say you can keep rather good relations normally, ok, if you give in sometimes; on marathon, since they forget harder then they ask for new things, I often find myself having problems.
The Rook
King
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 788
I think Cathy makes a great mate. Ok she's a backstabber, but she is one of the few leaders who will sign a defensive pact when pleased. Great fun when she is on another continent with a warmonger who is friendly with her, and cautious to you.
Cathy is always my best mate , very easy to be friendly with (just share region + give away some tribute) plus she's so hot 
she maybe a backstabber but I never experience it , maybe I always seek for dom victory so my power rating always high enough
she maybe a backstabber but I never experience it , maybe I always seek for dom victory so my power rating always high enough
Bleys
Deity
I agree 100%. I have found that AI civs are MUCH more amiable to giving you better trades for techs later if you toss them these early bones. I used to deny every demand, and only give in to about half of the "polite" requests, but now, I almost always give them what they want. The earlier you do this, the less painful it will be later. If you never give in to an early request, you are sure to find them "demanding" you very best stuff later.
The Rook
King
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 788
You can ask for tribute at cautious or lower, whether they accept, and how much they accept is dependent on your relative power ratings. You will get a negative "arrogant demand" modifier though. At pleased and higher you can ask for gifts, there is no negative modifier whether they refuse or accept. In each case, after you have made a request you can't successfully ask again until they "forget" the last one. There is an element of randomness for the time period it takes the AI to forget, the maths are on the forum somewhere. Don't be too greedy when asking for gifts, normally I find it pays to clean out my "friend's" treasury every so often though.
BalbanesBeoulve
Emperor
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,060
Does Cathy backstab if you have a def pact with her? In a recent game I was at friendly, she offers a DP. Ok, take it. But a few years later i break it to attack Brennus, and also declare on someone on the other continent just for the + diplo boost with Gilga. So a few turns later, she gets bribed to attack me.
Either way, she's makes a horrible friend.
Either way, she's makes a horrible friend.
I'm not an expert on this at all, but many times I've had luck getting something from an AI right after giving in to one of their demands. I.e. they come by demanding a relatively costly tech. I give in, they love me, and then the "spare this for a friend" option comes up. I've rarely had a civ give in to demands for tribute, but once the "Could you spare this for a good friend?" option comes up, you can often beg cheaper techs off your friends.
BalbanesBeoulve
Emperor
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2008
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- 1,060
For them to give in to demands for tribute you need to be at the top of the power graphs, and above them at the very least. So unless you're warmongering, and have already conquered a few other people, your power won't be that high.
lordqarlyn
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2005
- Messages
- 220
I never give tribute!! All the money for defense not one penny for tribute!!
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