The AI are Cheats and Liars

[plastiqe]

It seems to me that every game I play, the AI civs never stay true to their alliances. They always sign peace treaties when I have a military alliance with them against another team. And they attack me when we've got a right of passage still in effect. I wonder is there any way to make them more trustworthy? It would be nice to have a few civs that you can count on to stay true to their word. Does anyone have any tips on how to go about doing this?

[size=-3]Yay first post![/size]

 

[Tassadar]

I usualy make allience with luxuries, give them something to loose if they break the allience.

If 1 luxuries is enough , give them 2 or 3, some other member suggest gold per turn, but i never tryed. Luxuries work great.

 

[IbnSina]

I count on that. If they were always true to their word, I would always have to attack -them-! As it is, I can rely on them to make ill-advised threats and declarations of war, and can then strip them of their possessions. Having a gold-per-turn or resource/luxury deal with an AI reduces the probability that he will attack you, but does not eliminate it. In my current game, the Persians had 15 turns left on gold I was paying them per turn when they stabbed me in the back...

 

[dgfred]

I count on that. If they were always true to their word, I would always have to attack -them-! As it is, I can rely on them to make ill-advised threats and declarations of war, and can then strip them of their possessions. Having a gold-per-turn or resource/luxury deal with an AI reduces the probability that he will attack you, but does not eliminate it. In my current game, the Persians had 15 turns left on gold I was paying them per turn when they stabbed me in the back...

I agree. It seems the AI wants to attack . In my current game
India offered a deal for luxuries and alot of gpt.... they barely had enough for
1 turn of paying this . I'm almost positive they wanted a war..... I will
give them one shortly . It is hard for me to explain but I think the
AI tries to keep you in the game by causing wars (really the best way for you
to win) at certain game times . Though you have the strongest
military and the most power, they attack you for NO reason .

 

[Crimso]

Aaah, don't be so sure about those gpt deals! If the AI can't pay, they have to declare war on you; this has happened to me many times.

 

[dgfred]

Aaah, don't be so sure about those gpt deals! If the AI can't pay, they have to declare war on you; this has happened to me many times.

That is what I meant. The AI was offering the deal- much gpt for my luxury.
The AI only had enough $ to cover one turn . I think they wanted a
war, so they will get one soon enough .

 

[plastiqe]

In my game I was the Vikings and had been on polite terms with China since we met. I had a right of passage with them, a military alliance with them against the Inca, I was sending China two luxuries for one and I was stronger than China. Couldn't believe it when they landed troops on my island and suprise attacked me.

I never knew that if they couldn't pay a gold per turn deal they'd attack though, so maybe I'll try and cut down on those. : )

 

[Tassadar]

Ya , especialy if you sell them an expensive tech while they are in their golden age, during their golden age they may be able to pay 200 gold per turn, but as soon as their golden age end, then their income drop.

 

[denyd]

What I like to do if an AI is about to attack (has just moved an SOD) into my lands, is buy an expensive tech from them for gpt & luxuries and when they attack, I don't have to pay anymore. In the current GOTM, I just traded 135gpt + dyes to Greece for Democracy after they moved 15 cavalry next to my city. Then I demanded they leave, they declared war and I got democracy for nothing. To be even sneakier, I moved all my troops into that city and gave it to the Arabs (who I just got it from in a peace deal) and got the Arabs as an Ally against Greece (and got them wiped out).

 

[IbnSina]

Aaah, don't be so sure about those gpt deals! If the AI can't pay, they have to declare war on you; this has happened to me many times.

I mean going the other way. If you are paying -them- gold per turn, they are less inclined to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Conversely, if they are paying you, then they are more inclined to attack. That's why I frequently borrow gold from the AIs if I want to placate them - I hold their money for them, and they can't attack me if they want it back. The point is that sometimes they attack anyway, thereby losing all the gold they loaned me, as well as making me mad... In the case above, I was at war with one AI, and wanted to keep Persia out of the war, so I borrowed all the gold they had on hand in return for gpt. Five turns later, the Persians attacked me anyway. I kept the loan, and after a fairly bitter fight, razed one of their cities...

 

[Crimso]

Yeah, I posted that before I saw the two posts before mine...

You guys have pretty devious plans. Right now I'm trying to play a game where for once I keep my rep spotless, don't capture any enemy cities, etc. Does anyone play like this regularly?

 

[Tassadar]

Yeah, I posted that before I saw the two posts before mine...

You guys have pretty devious plans. Right now I'm trying to play a game where for once I keep my rep spotless, don't capture any enemy cities, etc. Does anyone play like this regularly?

I have no problem at all to keep my reputation, just be carfull with whom to trade, like if you trade with another continent, be sure to trade with civilization that got a harbor, do not rely on a third party harbor.

Playing peacefull, i tryed many time, but as soon as i get strong and have the tech lead, one of them attack me, and when they attack me, they are done. I use what i call the cheater ambush tactic, i let 1 of my cities undefended, so they target it, but i have all defensive bonus ground control with fortify defender, so the only path for them is plain and grassland, then i use bombard on them and slaughter them with fast units. I have a kill/loose ratio very high.

The other factor that prevent me from beeing peacefull is strategic ressource disapearance, most of the time when i have a tech lead and get let say rocketry ( aluminium), my only strategic ressource dissapear within a few turn, and i dont want to wait until a.i. got rocketry, so i conquiere their ressource.

 

[punkbass2000]

Yeah, I posted that before I saw the two posts before mine...

You guys have pretty devious plans. Right now I'm trying to play a game where for once I keep my rep spotless, don't capture any enemy cities, etc. Does anyone play like this regularly?

I play like that often enough. I always keep my rep good, and often play without aggressive wars.

 

[Taliesin]

What I like to do if an AI is about to attack (has just moved an SOD) into my lands, is buy an expensive tech from them for gpt & luxuries and when they attack, I don't have to pay anymore. In the current GOTM, I just traded 135gpt + dyes to Greece for Democracy after they moved 15 cavalry next to my city. Then I demanded they leave, they declared war and I got democracy for nothing.

Doesn't this shred your rep to pieces?
(More to the point, I guess... do you care?)

 

[denyd]

Taliesin: Doesn't this shred your rep to pieces?

No, I was completly honest with the Greeks, they could have not declared war on me and I'd have been stuck paying them gold for 20 turns. As for the Arabs, I was just returning their city to them and asking for an alliance, which they could have refused to enter.

 

[Taliesin]

I think your failure to deliver your end of the deal for the whole 20 turns still affects your rep, even though they declared war. You even lose rep if you're supplying another civ and they're conquered before the 20 turns are up-- I'm pretty sure you lose rep if you stop supplying a per-turn deal for any reason whatsoever (even one entirely beyond your control, e.g. the other civ loses their only port city and can no longer receive your luxuries).

 

[Aggie]

Denyd is right in this case. Not his rep is shot, but the one of the AI invading.

 

[magritte]

Do the A.I. vary in trustworthiness? I haven't been able to recognize it (some are more warlike, but that's slightly different). I always think this "the ____ are known liars and cheats" pointless, because it says that about ALL the A.I. civs by mid-game.

One thing that I think needs to be modified in Civ 4 is that the A.I.'s attitude should make more of a difference. I always think it's bizarre that these civs that are "furious" with me are always inviting me to join alliances and sign MPPs.

 

[IbnSina]

Do the A.I. vary in trustworthiness? I haven't been able to recognize it (some are more warlike, but that's slightly different). I always think this "the ____ are known liars and cheats" pointless, because it says that about ALL the A.I. civs by mid-game.

One thing that I think needs to be modified in Civ 4 is that the A.I.'s attitude should make more of a difference. I always think it's bizarre that these civs that are "furious" with me are always inviting me to join alliances and sign MPPs.

I think that trustworthiness and bellicosity are not so different here. The aggressive AIs are the ones who will attack you with the least provocation, at the slightest appearance of advantage to themselves if they do so. Having one undefended city near your border is enough to drive the Mongols into an uncontrollable frenzy, regardless of any deals they have with you. By contrast, in my experience, the French are pretty reliable, so long as I keep up my end of all the bargains. I have no problem keeping Joan polite with me .

As for having deals with furious nations, it seems as if that imitates RL. Just think of the 1980s, when the U.S. was sending armaments to Iran, even after that country had just made the U.S. furious by taking hostages. Later that decade, the U.S. supported Iraq/Hussein -against- Iran, even as Hussein used weapons of mass destruction against his own people. Nations always do whatever deals their governments believe to be in their best interests, regardless of the sentiments of their populations.

 

[Dark Russell]

Good point. I am currently in a game where I am at war with 18 other civs late in the industrial era. They all declared war on me within 6 turns as they made alliances with each other. The only civ that did not declare war was China (who was ranked #1 at the time. I was #3). I brought China up in tech (as I was in front by 1 tech), gave them dyes for gpt, gave them rubber for gpt, gave them oil for gpt, had an alliance with them against most of the countries they were already at war with, and also had a MPP and ROP with them. Needless to say they were gracious towards me. About 15 turns later (I decided to not sign peace treaties anymore...cause they all gotta pay for this) China allies with one of our common enemies against me. I am not sure what they were offered (Sumeria had no oil or rubber to give them, were behind in techs, and didn't have any extra luxuries I could see)? They must have decided to go to war with me because I was approaching them in points (now #2 and closing fast as the Americans, Byzantines, Koreas, Indians and especially the Babalonians all lost several cities to me).

The AI makes irrational decisions sometimes and it has been my experience that they sometimes seem to be based on point standings rather than logic. Any thoughts on this?