the AI is NOT my friend and other gripes and thoughts

[ThePrankMonkey]

i get crappy deals even when i have more units or more tech or more culture,etc.

i mostly play japanese and in one game almost right at the beginning the zulu started making demands for this that and the other thing. they even declared war on me for not outright giving them my territory map after they demanded it. not once did they ask for anything.

and how did they all of a sudden have like 12 cities and a gazillion units?

like Civ II, the AI cheats its butt off.


there has only been a couple of cases where i get even trades but even for territory or world maps they insisti give them like 50 gold on top of the map, why? they came to me looking for a deal so they should accept a one for one deal (such as map for map).

i think they need to fix this.



how come you cant build walls after it turns into a city? i dont get the logic here.


i'm also sick and tired of being told i cant go into another civ's territory yet they go into mine constantly. i had this problem with the chinese (i played japanese), they would violate the border on every turn at one point and when i kept asking Mao to remove his troops HE went from polite to annoyed. this kept up so i declared war. now it seems that no matter how equal the units were (even the same unit with the same veteran or elite status) i would lose every time. WTH? especially in my own cities!!! whats going on here? why am i constantly losing?

i gained like 4-5 cities from the chinese because of my advanced culture. i thought this was nice addition to the game over civ II.

i even like the graphics, much better, now i dont feel like i'm playing a game on the original NES.

the palace is pretty nice as well.



i dont like the fact that i cant build certain units if i dont have a specific resource. case in point, swordsman. i have had iron ore only once and i ran out fairly quickly! i could only create like 4 units, i felt like i went to the prom with the biggest tease in school! sure thought i was making progress and then i'm told no, this is far as it goes and i'm frustrated. yet the AI controlled civs have it coming out the ying yang!

i cant get my workers to irrigate/mine/build roads fast enough.

the AI controlled civs have TONS of workers (reminds me of civ II with all the AI controlled civs with like 50,000,000,000 engineers doing aboslutely nothing) and they have a ton of work done and my workers are idiots! want some advice? do NOT automate them, they are idiots. mining where they should be irrigating for example or trying to mine in an irrigated square.

and why is it so easy for civil disorder to break out? even with the republic the people are still fickle and moody. i havent gotten far enough into the game to have democracy,etc. it wasnt this bad with civ II. in this case i wish they made it a tad easier.

pretty bad when you try to build as many cities as you can and the ai controlled civs still have twice as many as you do. outrageous. i build a city, create a military unit, worker unit then a unit to build another city and i still cant keep up with the other civs, am i doing something wrong?'


if all the civs start out with despotism how is it other civs have like 10 more techs than i do in a relatively short amount of time? do i create scientists to speed up the tech research? because that doesnt seem to work.


how am i suppose to give the people luxuries if i there are none to be found???? i dont feel like paying through the nose for wine or silk in an "always unfair to me" deal just to make the people happy.



does anything i have typed here have any merit to them or am i just a civ III newbie idiot?

i dont like the fact the wonders has less effect, unless anotherciv buildsthem then it has a HUGE impact on that civ.......cheating AI!

 

[SirJethro]

Either uninstall Civ3 to free up space on your harddrive, or spend some time reading strategy articles and learn how to get better.

If you are determined to hate the game, you are putting yourself at risk for CTS for no reason.

 

[Allemand]

What level are you playing? Hope you didn't start on Diety.

 

[Pickled Corpse]

The AI has more to start with for each increase in difficulty...

Try starting at Cheiftain and study the articles on this web site - very usefull!

 

[ThePrankMonkey]

i'm not determined to hate the game, i just strongly feel that the AI should be bound by the same limitations we human players have. no sense in making a game that is set up to beat your customers most of the time, customers like to win once in a while. if i wanted to be beaten constantly with no chance at winning i would have stayed 8 years old and let my brother beat me up on a daily basis.

i really like the game, i think its smoother than the previous civs. the animated graphics give it more of a real feel to it. there are plenty of upsides to it (i like the tech tree alot better now!) and it is more challenging and there are more details to it. i still give it a thumbs up.


game AIs have been cheating for a long time but that still doesnt make it right.

 

[poprawkz]

First of all, forget everything you know about Civilization II. If you play Civ III like Civ II you will lose. Its a different game so you are going to have to UNlearn everything you know.

First of all try a different Civ to start out with, Persia or Egypt you will probably like quite nicely (they are pretty popular Civs) They are industrial so your workers will do things much much quicker. Under Despotism concentrate on building mines on plains, bonus shield plains, and hills. Dont bother with irrigation there isnt a great enough benefit. Your secondary concern should be connecting your cities with roads.

My favorite thing to do is to begin researching the Alphabet with 20% science level and just stockpile gold. Then, buy my techs from the computer or find them from goody huts. Alphabet should take you 40 turns almost no matter what anyways and its a great tech to trade.

Expand early to secure yourself there is no best build order, you have to adapt, but a good general strategy is to build two warriors (or scouts or spearmen depending on your situation) then begin work on a granary. If you do not have pottery, begin with a temple or barracks, and then switch to a granary if you manage to get ahold of pottery. I manage to get pottery every game (lucky me). Next start cranking out spearman / settler combos and begin your expansion.

Place your settlers in good locations, in Civ III the placement of the cities means more than in Civ II (unless you are just going to do ICS). Look for hills or rivers preferably, try to avoid desert and jungle this early in the game.

Once you've contacted other Civ's trade for their techs! Always offer them one of your techs and try to get one of their techs plus gold. I usually manage to clean out the coffers of my neighbors early, this stockpile of gold can really come in handy.

As for great wonders, figure out which ones are important to you, do not waste production! Most great wonders arent that fantastic. The only time you should get a great wonder is when A) It will give you an insurmountable edge, or B) When it will cripple your opponents.

If you are playing a huge pangea map, pyramids are godly. If you are playing a small archipelago map why even bother? Weigh the consequences of building a great wonder. Is it worth all the military units / workers / city improvements it will cost you?

These are just a few tips that may change your mind about the game. They are just narrow aspects of the game so be aware there are many many more options out there, improvise.

Gotta go to an interview now otherwise I'd write more. Take my advice about unlearning Civ II you wont regret it :-D

 

[ssmith619]

I can sympathize. In the beginning, it's difficult. After a couple of games, you'll get the hang of it. It just takes a while. I'm still not that great, but I'm a lot better than I was. Also, always start out on cheiftain. One level to the next is a huge step, I've noticed, and I can tell the difference between the first couple of levels almost immediatly. In the beginning of the game, the AI will be ahead. Get used to it. Build the Great Library. You'll thank me later. Good luck, and don't give up!

 

[ThePrankMonkey]

right now my present game is gonig pretty darn well. no fights or wars yet. i am playing the germans against france, russia and england (the computer picked all four, i wanted a surprise!!! ) so its not exactly WWII yet


everything is going pretty well. i dont have as many cities but what i lack in cities i make up for in units and city size. i am also producing quite a bit and i am making a nice sized coin in the process. my science rate is pretty good NOW (i TOTALLY forgot to switch governments like an idiot and stuck myself with monarchy up until 1900's doh! ) and i've had the ability to buy tech here and there because of my surplus gold. so i'm fairly equal in the science dept. i'm running a democracy (production is 150%!!! booyah!) and so far there are no hitches. even the trades have been fairly reasonable. there was time when england first met my civ they made demands but when i built up my military units the trade offers became more fair suddenly......hmmmmm the sword is mightier than their greed apparently. my culture is doing pretty well. i was superior in that and now i'm fairly even with the other three civs.




i've had to pretty much untrain myself from civ II, apparently i had more bad habits than i thought. it also helps that i know how to move my citizens around for better production, commerce and manage my cities better.


does changing the entertainers to scientists help at all? it might, i recently changed some of my entertainers (i love the "we love bismark day!", really helps alot) to scientists and my tech discoveries are getting faster.


i have also not had any problems with border busters (those who intentionally tresspass hoping i'll declare war like the chinese did a few games ago.) at all.

there is still room to move and create more cities so i guess since everything else is doing pretty well i'll expand my territory. i also like the cultural influence expanding your borders thing. really nice addition to the game.



so everythings working pretty well (even the patches i installed havent given me a moments trouble) and my saved game is doing pretty well.

i notice the game has slowed down a little though. its mainly between turns, not sure why though. i have tons of memory and HD space so i'm not sure whats going on. maybe my computer is in need of a better/bigger fan to keep things cool inside, not a big deal, it isnt giving me a problem.

 

[CorpBoy]

Here's one tip for getting a better deal. If the computer comes to you asking for an even-sounding trade (i.e. my map for your map), try going through the menus and doing the "what will you give me for..." for the same option. A lot of the times, he'll give you something better. Sometimes he'll tell you to buzz off.

 

[ThePrankMonkey]

ive actually tried doing that. they keep telling me to get lost.


i figured it out. if they think they are superior (and they ALWAYS think this) they come up with some half assed offer that helps them and screws you (or could screw you in the future), however, if they view you as superior in some way (like if you have more tech advances than them or more culture or luxuries) then they bring the one for one trade deals which we SHOULD be able to use to OUR advantage but the AI still wont let us do it. guess the AI doesnt like it when your civ is starting to get the upper hand. i'm to the point where i'm going to flatout refuse to even see them much less hear their asinine proposals. getting tired of beggars coming up to me trying to dictate the terms of a trade THEY OFFERED to me.


its also easier to play when you lower the number of rival civs.


and i have decided to go for the pangea map. and it is HUGE!!!!!!!! i wanted some time BEFORE another civ came up trying to bend me over the barrel and have their way with me like zulu did in the last game (went with a normal sized map with 7 civs). i want some time to build a few cities and get some tech discoveries under my belt first.


although i notice that its downright hard to find strategic resources period, even for the AI civs. iron ore was a HUGE problem for a long time, there was none to find! (but once it was found i made swordsman by the gross {now artillery}.


i'm getting better slowly.

 

[Mad Bomber]

CivIIenthusiast:

a couple of things to keep in mind:

1) along with civ traits each civ has an aggression level. the aggression level affects what they will demand from you, how often they will declare war, & in general how militant their civ will be. As I recall, Zulus and the Russians have the highest aggression.

2) The more you have, the more they will demand pure and simple, AI rarely trade 1-1 & almost never give you a favorable deal. (although I have gotten good deals from the persians & greeks) Building a strong military will deter them from declaring war, & the AI will make trading better but IMO AI trading will never be FAIR. (they never understand the meaning of "I want your Gold,all of your tech, cities & you at the end of a rope" what a pity, I oblige them anyway!)

3) Wars fought in the early tech area are bloody & risky. So unless you have a civ with a good early UU I advise against starting a war w/o Swords & Knights. When fighting a war (any war) make sure you have a lot of units built. Then build some more, a lot more.

4) When first starting out play on a small map w/ few civ's this will help you learn the game fundamentals.

5) the game will slow down with a larger map, more civ's more cities & more units. The more processes the computer has to make the slower the game will run.

 

[CorpBoy]

Originally posted by CivIIenthusiast
its also easier to play when you lower the number of rival civs.


and i have decided to go for the pangea map. and it is HUGE!!!!!!!! i wanted some time BEFORE another civ came up trying to bend me over the barrel and have their way with me like zulu did in the last game (went with a normal sized map with 7 civs). i want some time to build a few cities and get some tech discoveries under my belt first.

My current game is me (as the aztecs) on a huge pangea map with 6 other civs. Before the Ancient Times ended, the stupid Irioquois declared war (unprovoked). His puny 1 move warriors were foot-slogging it over 12 squares of map just to get to me, while my Jaguar Warriors were eating him for breakfast.

The resulting war has doubled my territory (and decimated the Iroquois).

 

[ThePrankMonkey]

well the only civ i went to war with was the english. the funny part is though.....they were on the other side of the pangaea, Russia was between them and they had been at warwith russia so there was no ROP between them so when they declared war, 1 unit showed up and got slaughtered. britian eventually came to me with a peace agreement! (i was shocked) russia was a tad aggressive but not very much. the french kept trying to spy on me (and failed every time!)


i lost the game but i think i did fairly well, i kept up with the other civs(in terms of culture and tech), i wasnt conquered and i didnt lose a city.

the french wanted a ROP pact and i found out why, almost a little too late. there was some saltpeter right outside my border on the other side of my territory and the only way they could get to it was to go through my territory. so i sent a couple of units to guard it just as they were sending two workers to build a colony.
these workers made railroad from one side of my territoy to the other with benifitted me nicely, i could move units quickly and it allowed my automated workers the ability to move around faster getting more work done. of course after i put a couple of my units on it the two french worker units went off and did something else, and the french never asked for another ROP pact again. i even managed to find more iron ore thanks to those two french units (cavalry sure do come in handy, they can outrun workers in a hurry).



i think part of the reason for me losing this game was i didnt expand my territory constantly. i had plenty of room to put another 15 cities but i kept focusing on developing what i already had (i already had all the cities i could have and even created a "new" city which was berlin). on average i had about 8-10 units per city but that didnt seem to be enough to the AI civs, my military adviser was constantly telling me i had a small army compared to the AI civs, eventually i had an army that matched britians. oh well, i learned alot with this game and how to manage my civ a lot better. i even learned that the workers arent as stupid as i thought. they didnt always do what i wanted but they did maximize the squares in every city's radius for maximum production, food and commerce. they were slower to build roads connecting everything but they eventually got their act together with that as well.

 

[CorpBoy]

If you had room for 15 more cities, without overlapping any city radius, then you definitely should expand to use that space up. If nothing else, it'll keep the darn computer from sending a spearman/settler combo half way across to map to settle some squares near you.

I've seen the computer ask for peace more than once. Usually, it happens when the AI realized that attacking my cities with Cavalry when I have 10 riflemen in each one is pretty stupid hehe.

 

[Mad Bomber]

The key to Civ 3 is expansion, the more land you have the better your civ will be. Always have settler/defender combos head out to found new cities. in the expansion period, (If its very early I will send out settlers by themselves but that is risky) build only what you need until you reach your optimal # of cities. When that's reached, upgrade your existing army then add the unessiential improvements.

 

[edawstwin]

Wow, your first post was brutal. I was wondering why you were still trying to play. I'm glad you're getting better.

Alot of good advice has been given, mainly the part about playing Chieftan and moving up in levels only after you feel comfortable doing so. Playing Emperor or Diety from the start will prompt posts like your original one.

A bunch of stuff I have learned (mostly from this site) and tested, with great effect:

Each level does get harder because the AIs have more advantages. They don't "cheat" on the first two levels, and the next two aren't insurmountable, even for a casual player. The hardest two cheat big time, and they have to. you've seen your workers, and the AIs units, make stupid decisions. No way can an AI adapt like a human. To make a challenging game for die-hard players, AIs will have to cheat.

As far as your trades go, I have found that military might keeps people from demanding things, and usually makes trades go easier. Two exceptions (that I know of) are Right of Passage agreements and trading Maps. These depend almost solely on territory difference. If you have a similar amount of territory, an ROP should be an even trade. If you have twice as much land, the AI will pay handsomely for this. Works the same with World Maps. If you have a more explored World Map than your opponent (and he hasn't seen some of this territory), he'll pay for it. I try to sell maps as often as possible (after the initial expansion phase). Even for 1 or 2 gold - that adds up over time.

You don't get walls in a size 7+ city because the defensive bonus is built in to it's size. Metropolises (13+) have an even bigger defensive bonus.

Expansion is the most important part of the early game. Like one poster said - expand until you can't anymore, then build improvments. Granaries (in your good food cities) and Temples should be the only improvements you build, until all lands are taken between you and the AI. Although if you play with less than the optimal number of Civs (example - playing with 7 opponents on a HUGE map), you may quickly find that corruption is too much to overcome in far away settlements in Despotism and even Monarchy. 10-15 squares away (depending on mapsize) will probably be the max you can handle until Republic and Democracy. Also, use workers to build roads, not improve the city squares until expansion is over (your early cities should't be bigger than size 4 anyway). Mobility is extremely important, especially if you get sucked into an early war. Always build roads to luxuries and connect all cities as well - that's one less garrison you have to have.

And don't be afraid to be near other Civs at the beginning. Always trade with them, especially techs and communications with other civs. You might want to keep civs from talking to the other one's you've met because they'll trade amongst themsleves, but always try and get comms with AIs - you can be a "broker" and make lots of money this way (always see what each civ will give for a tech before trading - some civs are much richer than others, and the value of a tech goes down as more civs get it). Never trade your map early - the AI will just find more places to settle. Always expand right up to their border and pop rush temples (for the culture) - this keeps them from expanding into your territory. And settle every location you can - that much needed Iron is found in hills and mountains, and securing more of those terrain types early means you're likely to get it when it appears. The same is true for the other strategic resources - they can appear in less than optimal squares, so cover them all. Oil (desert, tundra) is one resource that you HAVE to have in the late game to even have a chance.

If you have to go to war early, your big military should be able to defeat the AI. Take a few choice cities and sue for peace. Always demand as much as he'll give. Ask for all of his techs (first), then money (lump sums), workers, and cities. If he's in a bad position, he'll capitulate.

About money: If at all possible, try to get Lump Sums from AIs and give Gold Per Turn. If a civ has to pay Per Turn, he may get angry and declare war, thus breaking your deal. And if you give Per Turn, a civ is much less likely to become angry with you because he doesn't want that income to stop. Sometimes his Per Turn offer is too good to turn down, but Lump Sums are always better.

One last thing: Pay attention to your Civ's traits. Each one plays differently. Egyptians can expand like crazy early with the fast road-building and cheap temples. Use this to your advantage. Expansionsit Civs work well on large maps - set science to zero, build lots of scouts and get lots of techs from Goody Huts, then trade those techs for cash. I could go on, but you can find threads on the benefits of different Civs. Just remember to use BOTH of a Civs traits. Every one can be played effectively (yes, even the English).

Hope these helped - all of this advice helped me a great deal, and I play much more than I used to because it's fun to win.

 

[ThePrankMonkey]

so what do i do while i'm expanding? just create settlers and military units to escort them (then fortify the new city once its built)? is there anything else i should do? i would think that having a couple of workers around to at least build roads would be good and just in case there is a strategic resource right outside of my territory (in my present game i put a strong military unit on it until i could produce a settler unit to build a city near it and have it in my borders, thats how i got 5 sources for horses early in the game!). what i'm thinking is,once i get my first city built create a military unit to fortify it then create a settler ASAP. create another city and another military unit. and keep doing this with each new city and some of the old cities as well (depending on terrain and where the cities are, cant build a new city on water!) until i cant go any further then start building more miltary units and start in on city improvements?


what about fortresses? does anyone really use these?

how can i protect my workers? i have never had much of a problem of them being taken away but it has happened a couple of times and i want to be able to at least try to keep it from happening.

would it hurt anything if i put military units on a border with another civ? right now i have the great wall of tanks along my border with the azteks (i want them to know i WILL run them down like grass if they attack me again). i literally have tanks all over the border so if they want to cross over they have to attack a tank. of course they'd have to do this with a knight or jaguar warrior so there is little chance of them getting through. i also have like on average 15-20 miltary units PER city so they would be hard pressed to take a city from me now.


i do find that if i have my well established cities that already have city improvement produce the military units i can have my newer cities make thier improvements while still being fortified by military units via railroad (i love that no movement thing! doesnt cost a movement to move them from city to city). i am learning new tricks as i go. i also find its easier to defend than attack. like the azteks attacked one of my newer smaller cities and it only had like 2 units and it took them about 20 units to take the city. one my of units would fend off like 10 units at a time, they'd attack, go red then retreat then start all over again.



my biggest complaint is strategic resources. i got lucky early in the game and got a bunch of horses and even some iron but now later in the game i only have oil and i HAVE to buy rubber from the zulu and coal from the azteks so i can finish building all the railroad. now the azteks have three sources of aluminum literally right across the border from me and i cant get to it! and i need it way more htan they do! i need to upgrade all my tanks to modern armor.


but i suppose thats just part of the game and i gotta get use to it.
IF i had kept expanding in that direction, that aluminum would have been mine. oh well. that'll teach me to keep expanding.

 

[edawstwin]

Yes, you should always be creating military units and workers as well as settlers. I was just referring to City Improvements - don't build anything more than a Temple and Granary (except in rare cases) until you are finished with the initial expansion period. And don't bother farming or irrigating (except maybe to irrigate a Plains or two in a city without Grassland for food growth). Use workers to build roads to the city sites (Settlers get there faster) and if that's not possible, hook them up to a road ASAP once they're built.

 

[Arathorn]

Irrigating and mining (grasslands, especially) is very important in the early game, too. Try to maintain a 1:1 ratio between workers and cities. (Some play higher, some play lower successfully, but about 1:1 is a good starting point).

Don't build just roads. Irrigating bonus squares (cattle, wheat) is a very good idea. Irrigating floodplains, too, works very well.

You might slip over to the SG forum and read a training game or two for some good ideas, too.

Arathorn

 

[edawstwin]

Irrigating in despotism does nothing for bonus or grassland squares - why bother?