the AIs use of Nuclear Weapons.

Angmar

Warlord
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
184
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
The world I am playing on is basically two main continents. One super continent like Europe / Asia / Africa and the other one like North America. I am on North America. Recently a HUGE war broke out on the other one, involving absolutely everyone in that area which worked out to be 6 Civilizations, plus my neighbour France so it was a World War. I have no presence in that area the the most involvment I have ever had was sailing a destroyer around filling in chunks of sea squares to try and complete my map.

Then one turn I heard it. The launch of an ICBM. I have only been involved in a few Nuclear wars and almost always right around 2050 to expend the arsenal that I had built. So I wasnt all that sure. Then there was another and another, I started counting. Roughly 15 sound effects later it was my turn. I was curious as to what happened. I traded world maps with France, checked all of its cities, no glowing cities there. Go over to the other continent and Rome was FLATTENED. They only had 4 major cities that were above 13, and 2 of those above 20. Before most of Rome was 20+ a real force in that area of the world. Carthage also had a few glowing cities.

Over the next 5 turns there was atleast one nuclear weapon fired between my turns. I even got to see France fire an ICBM at someone .. I assume Rome.

Now my assumption about all of this. Rome started the Nuclear war by firing some weapons at Carthage. The world in turn struck Rome with the majority of their weapons that turn in response. I have seen this effect a few times when I start the war.

Now the question: Beyond retalition to a nuclear strike what will cause an AI to use such weapons? I have never seen the AI use nuclear weapons first. My fear is that I am building up a huge force to strike France and they have nuclear weapons. Due to the layout of our continent a couple nuclear weapons could cripple my strike ability as there are only a couple of key cities that I own that have bomber reach into the heart of France. A big portion of my ability to damage France will rely on these key cities. If they are nuked my chances of winning the war will fade before the glowing rock does.

Cheers,
 
Originally posted by Angmar
Then one turn I heard it. The launch of an ICBM.

I don't really have any advice for you, but I just wanted to say that I thought the way you described the sounds of the ICBMs launching was chilling and very evocative. If you don't already, you should write stories of your games for the stories and tales forum!
 
The AI usually doesn't launch nukes first. If you use them, they will be more lenient to use them too, even in another war. Investigate cities and plant spies to learn how many nukes an opponent has before engaging in a nuclear war.

One word of advice, when you use nukes, even your allies will declare war on you for using them.
 
Originally posted by MTheil3508
[BOne word of advice, when you use nukes, even your allies will declare war on you for using them. [/B]

As much as I've heard about this, I've never experienced it...anyone else in my position?
 
The AI will use nuclear weapons in a first strike on the higher difficulty levels and when they are getting seriously pummeled in a conventional war with the player or another AI.
 
Thanks for everyones comments. I did get into a war with both France and America which are both nuclear powers and have used them on Rome. Through out the last 15 years of war the Americans have launched two ICBMs at me. I did however wait to start the wars till after I built SDI. Neither have made it through :)

The effect of this is that the other main continent is a radiactive wasteland and my continent ( even though France still has a portion of it ) is tropical wonderland in comparison :)
 
Originally posted by MTheil3508
I've had this happen to me in many games. Are you in a very powerful position? What level do you normally play on?

I usually play on regent, a couple monarch games under my belt. I think the times I've used nuclear weapons I've always been in the top two or three civs scorewise.
 
I think militiristic civs are also inclined to use nuclear weapons more than commercial or religious civs. On harder levels, the AI is even more forcoming to use nukes.

When I have played and am in the most powerful position, the weaker AI tends to fire less nukes as they become less powerful. The civs that are close to your (or above your) power are the most likely to use nukes.
 
I have struck France very very hard in the last couple years of war. Nearly 100 points of French population has fallen before my artillery, air power and armour in the last two years.

Currently the military planners are working on mopping up the last four french cities. Despite the mountainous terrain the war is expected to end with the crushing of the once grand French civilization in 2 or 3 years. From there the plan is the great airbourne invasion of Americans. But that is an entirely different thread :)
 
Are you planning to use nukes in your invasion? And to DaDrunkenFish: if you have 200 nukes, you should have used those shields to build the spaceship instead of causing the whole world to turn into a nuclear desert.
 
I have no need to use nuclear weapons in the invasion. This is one of the first games where I only have a few token nuclear weapons. I have one tacticle nuke and one ICBM, mainly so that the AI knows that I have them. They seem to treat you differently once you have them :)
 
Hmm, if the AI respects nuclear-armed civilizations more, I may have to build a few ICBMs myself. Then I might have a bit of fun the turn before my spaceship is launched. See how many enemy capitals I can devastate before I leave the planet. :evil:
 
In my last few games, on Monarch, I've been way ahead in power and culture. Destroying less powerful civs, taking their wonders and culture.

So there were two other civs in one game left, all of good size and power. Both of them were up to date with MIs, MAs, marines..etc. I used my spies to see what they had militarily...each of them had a stockpile of ICBMs and were all annoyed as to the "global cleansing" I was doing..take out civs one at a time. I myself had a bundle of nukes, but never had enough of an itchy trigger finger to use them.

Turns came and went, then the other two civs formed an MPP and I was like "uh oh". Together, they were strong enough to take me out. Then they formed an alliance to destroy me. Since I was across a pond, they attacked with carriers, s, destroyers and transports full of units. Turn after turn they were bombarding my rails and improvements. I mobilized, attacked, counter-attacked, took out their improvements. Then their stealth fighters/bombers attacked off of carriers. I was up against the wall. My finger got more and more itchy. Then...WHOOOSH!!! The missles took flight, nuked their best cities one after another..then when half my supply was dwindled in one turn, I ended my turn.

Then what happened would change my usage of nukes forever. I counted them as they landed. 19 NUKES!!!! :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :eek: I've NEVER seen that many before in my life used in a game. My empire was drowning in nuclear sewage. The next two turns, they just ran me into the ground and took more than half my empire. I was destroyed. A few turns later, I'd been beaten, but not after 6 more nukes hit me.

Once you use nukes, unless you're prepared for the consequences, you're in hell. So avoid them at all costs unless you like your workers to walk around with 4 heads :)
 
I wish you could use the tactical nukes with less negativity from the AI. That way there is not as much damage to the Civs. For example say that Knightblade pDM had tactically nuked the Carriers and invading force and sunk them all. Sure the AI should be pissed but would it need to really retaliate with 19 nukes!?
 
I agree with the less negativity to a point. Not showing as much of a threat of sudden, overseas holocaust. But, a nuke is a nuke, no matter how it is delivered.

If your whole fleet was just destroyed with a tactical nuke, wouldn't you retaliate? I would not mind using some of my nukes when someone else has already used them, especially on me. I would be "very mad" if someone was a nuisance to the world AND just annihilated my whole invading force.
 
It's hard to defend the use of nukes. BUT...

Tactical Nukes (I think) were designed to obliterate military troops, equipment, command and control centers, infrastructure, Other nukes, and basically destroy things on a smaller scale without the civilian casualties caused on the scale of an ICBM that just vaporized 25 square miles of anything.

Sure they can destroy cities but if they are not used on a city the AI should be able to tell the difference.

On an unrelated note I wish you had the choice of atomic bombs and Hydrogen bombs.

Atomic bombs are in the game now.

Hydorogen bombs are even more powerful. You should be able to research this and upgrade shortly after Manhatten project.
 
That would be interesting... Having a nuke that is twice as powerful as a regular nuke now. Maybe they should incorporate an idea of striking multiple targets (with use of multiple warheads). That would make the game more realistic.

To minimize the power of the Tactical Nuke, they should reduce its power of devestation to one square. Thus realistically, it would only be destroying 5-10 miles, less of a threat of a 30 mile wipeout of an ICBM. But real comparison would come with the "Hydrogen" nuke that we are talking about, 50+ miles of nuclear waste.
 
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