In OT, in a discussion about gun control, someone made a comment about how the U.S. was defeated in Vietnam. He made the erroneous conclusion that the North Vietnamese military were victorious in the war. The following is an argument that the U.S. suffered a political, but not a military, defeat.
American troops were not defeated in Vietnam, but the American people refused to pay the price of victory. That's an important distinction. Several presidents got sucked into Vietnam because, first, they didn't want to offend France, and, later, no one wanted to risk appearing reluctant to confront Communist aggression. And make no mistake, the North Vietnamese were the aggressors in the war.
Once Lyndon Johnson realized he could not generate enough popular opinion to get the forces he knew he needed to win the war, he simply quit politics and retired. The next president, Richard Nixon, got elected on the promise to "get America out of Vietnam," and he did just that, although it took a long time. This is not without precedence. As early as the War of 1812, the American people showed a marked reluctance to support what it would take to win the war. In 1812, it was the conquest of Canada (or at least some parts of it). In 1952, Dwight Eisenhower got elected on the promise of "getting America out of Korea."
It takes a lot to get Americans into a war big time, always has, and probably always will. As the casualties mount and especially if there is no dramatic progress, public support quickly wanes. In our long wars, such as the Revolution, the Civil War, and World War II, it became very difficult to keep things going on the home front towards the end.
We still commemorate the harsh Winter of 1777-78, when George Washington pulled off a seeming miracle by keeping his army together during that season of discontent. Had Washington not been able to hold things together that winter, the British would have likely won the war the following spring and summer. During the Civil War the number of Union voters eager for a negotiated settlement grew as the 1864 elections approached. Abraham Lincoln had to jump through a lot of political hoops to head off the peace movement. Even WW2, seen as "the good war," found the American people quite warweary in 1945. Despite what many feel we should have thought then, the use of nuclear weapons was enthusiastically received by a people quite tired of war and its sacrifices.
There's little doubt the U.S. could have defeated the Vietnamese Communists, but it would have meant a risk of war with China and/or the USSR and the application of much more airpower and infantry. There might have been twice as many American dead and many more Vietnamese dead. Still, it was certainly possible. But too many of the people were not behind the war. That's how a democracy works. Sometimes you can't win, or don't want to win. That doesn't mean you're necessarily defeated, but you have to change your goals. This was successfully done in Korea, where the goals were changed from utter defeat of the North Koreans to resumption of the status quo ante. In 1964, America wanted to keep the Communists out of South Vietnam. By 1968, most Americans just wanted to keep Americans out of South Vietnam. The American people got what they wanted.
American troops were not defeated in Vietnam, but the American people refused to pay the price of victory. That's an important distinction. Several presidents got sucked into Vietnam because, first, they didn't want to offend France, and, later, no one wanted to risk appearing reluctant to confront Communist aggression. And make no mistake, the North Vietnamese were the aggressors in the war.
Once Lyndon Johnson realized he could not generate enough popular opinion to get the forces he knew he needed to win the war, he simply quit politics and retired. The next president, Richard Nixon, got elected on the promise to "get America out of Vietnam," and he did just that, although it took a long time. This is not without precedence. As early as the War of 1812, the American people showed a marked reluctance to support what it would take to win the war. In 1812, it was the conquest of Canada (or at least some parts of it). In 1952, Dwight Eisenhower got elected on the promise of "getting America out of Korea."
It takes a lot to get Americans into a war big time, always has, and probably always will. As the casualties mount and especially if there is no dramatic progress, public support quickly wanes. In our long wars, such as the Revolution, the Civil War, and World War II, it became very difficult to keep things going on the home front towards the end.
We still commemorate the harsh Winter of 1777-78, when George Washington pulled off a seeming miracle by keeping his army together during that season of discontent. Had Washington not been able to hold things together that winter, the British would have likely won the war the following spring and summer. During the Civil War the number of Union voters eager for a negotiated settlement grew as the 1864 elections approached. Abraham Lincoln had to jump through a lot of political hoops to head off the peace movement. Even WW2, seen as "the good war," found the American people quite warweary in 1945. Despite what many feel we should have thought then, the use of nuclear weapons was enthusiastically received by a people quite tired of war and its sacrifices.
There's little doubt the U.S. could have defeated the Vietnamese Communists, but it would have meant a risk of war with China and/or the USSR and the application of much more airpower and infantry. There might have been twice as many American dead and many more Vietnamese dead. Still, it was certainly possible. But too many of the people were not behind the war. That's how a democracy works. Sometimes you can't win, or don't want to win. That doesn't mean you're necessarily defeated, but you have to change your goals. This was successfully done in Korea, where the goals were changed from utter defeat of the North Koreans to resumption of the status quo ante. In 1964, America wanted to keep the Communists out of South Vietnam. By 1968, most Americans just wanted to keep Americans out of South Vietnam. The American people got what they wanted.
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