The Beginners Crash Guide To Cultural Victory

moggydave

Warlord
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
154
Here's a little guide I thought up for beginners looking for that first cultural victory. I'm sure advanced players will have different or perhaps better ways of getting there, but I think this could be called a good summing up of tips needed for a cultural victory. These tips are generally developed from my mistakes in geting my first few cultural victories, and also what I have done well, and apply in general to the earlier difficulty levels (ie. up to noble).


Basics

OK the first thing you need is a civ and a leader. The best traits for a cultural victory are certainly creative and philosophical, followed by industrious. The other traits will probably have very little effect on a basic cultural strategy, except maybe spiritual with it's cheap temples. Therefore I would say the best leaders for cultural victory, in a rough order are:
Frederick: Creative and Philisophical.
Louis: Creative and Industrious.
followed by:
Gandhi: Spiritual and Industrious.
Hatshepsut: Spiritual and Creative.
Saladin: Philosphical and Spiritual.

Other leaders could work, but I would personally say these five leaders are the best.

Secondly, you have to be focused on getting that cultural victory from very early on, turn one if possible. It takes a very long time to get 3 cities up to 50,000 culture each, so you have to be commited.

I will now look at the main area's of the game and what you want to do within these areas.


Expansion

It goes without saying that you need three cities for a cultural victory. In reality you will find it hard with less than 6 cities and 9 is optimal. The reasons for this are that you want to get a few 'cathedrals' in a few religions in each of your 3 big cities. You need 3 temples for every one cathedral, so the max cathedrals in one religion you can get is 2 with 6 cities and 3 with 9.

When it comes to early expansion you want your 3 main cities up quite quickly, but don't rush it for maintenances sake. The longer they have to build up that culture, the better. If you get these cities up quickly you may want to give it a rest before then plunking down cities four five and six, though it depends on how much commerce you are producing, your position and the expansion rate of the AI. Don't worry too much if you only get to cities 6 or 7. The AI rarely builds up it's culture at the rate you are doing so you are very likely to pick up one or two mid game.

With regards to the placement your big three cities should really be in good positions with plenty of food (growth and GP) and production (building and wonders). Generally you want one city with lots and lots of food as GP farm major, with the other two going really going as GP farms minor. Commerce shouldn't be so important in these cities; if you wish (and generally you will) you can specialise one or two other cities onto commerce with some cottage spammng- this can also help your science.


Technology

Early game techologies will depend on two things:

1. The technologies your civ starts with.
2. The resources nearby.

You want the worker actions nessasary to hook up your resourses quickly, but the order depends on what resourses there are and how quickly you can get those techs. You have to decide for yourself because each situation is different, but don't think this section is so important as it seems. Longer term priorities are more important as the benfits to our strategy become fewer and farer between, but at this stage of the game almost anything benfits your strategy. The one exception is that you don't want to worry much about military techs past bronze working for quite a while unless you are swamped by barbs or next to an aggressive civ who doesn't like you very much.

My personal strategy is to beeline to writing in the quickest way possible (usually via pottery or priesthood) depending on my start, then to go for alphabet, then trad for most other things- pretty standard i guess but it works.

In the game there are certain periods where you want to go for little "blocks" of technologies that get you various nessasary improvements and wonders for your win.

Literature > Drama > Music (requires Mathematics)

Physics > Electricity > Radio > Mass Media

Code Of Laws > Philosophy then Civil Service > Paper > Education > Liberalism (use free tech if gotten to get Nationalism)


Religion + Military

Hang on a minute, you say. Those areas arn't linked at all! But in some very important ways, they are when going for a cultural victory. You may find as you trot along that researching cultural techs and building cultural improvements is somewhat damaging the huge threatening army you usually have hanging over Mansa Musa's head when going for domination victory. It has to be said that your military will suffer as what are usually your 3 biggest military cities are caught up building Broadway and the Hermitage. Military thus is your second priority in all your oter cities after they produce the temples and theatres and universities needed to build cathedrals and national wonders in your big cities. Thus your diplomacy has to be very delicate as it is unlikely you will survive a full scale attack from Caesars Pretorians. I have definately found that religion is by far the easiest way to make a neighbour love or hate you. However you really want to found your own religion in a culture game. It is certainly a great advantage to do so, however if you do it is very very important that you spread it far and wide to keep some friends as protection. If you then found 2 or threereligions try to keep them to the confines of your own civ merely for shrine income and more temples which = more cathedrals.

I like to found lots of religions in my culture games if only to stop Alexander from founding one himself and getting very angry with me for not accepting Christianity into my Confucianist society. You will find that the 4 later religions (the ones that start with a missionary) are founded with techs you want as early as possible anyway. Founding a religion is always a great advantage but if you stauntly stay Islam out of pride when the rest of the world is a Hindu alliance, it is unlikely you will survive a very long time.


Civics

The other advantage spiritual civs have in any game is their ability to change their government and thus gameplan almost a will. This is great particulary if you are attacked as described above. However you generally want to stay to a general set of civics for the long term:

Government- Representation usually to keep your science up (you should have a lot of artists), and to stop revolt in th cities where you want every living soul working. Perhaps Uni Suffrage but never the other two unless spiritual and attacked (other civs won't be able to afford the anarchy).

Legal- FREE SPEECH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is SO important that you get Liberalism and get this insantly. Up to then you want Bureaucracy as your capital should be one of your culture cities.

Labour- Research COL and get Caste System so you can begin to spam out those great artists in your GP farm. I don't think you really want anything else- don't bother with slavery unless you are spiritual to bring civic upkeep down.

Economy- Mercantilism is ideal but Free market and perhaps SP may work depending on your empire, it's your call really. I would like to ask a question to all BTW, does anyone ever use Environmentalism?

Religion- My preference is always OR untill Philosophy when it's a quick switch to Pacifism for more GP. I can't see any other way personally as you shouldn't need a military (Theocracy), and Free Religion comes at a point where science is becoming less important and great artists are becoming more important.


Great People

Ideally you want a GP farm which also has high production as it should be one of your 3 culture cities (If you can get another one running INSTEAD OF this one outside ou 3 culture cities this isperhaps better). It should produce nothing but artists with the odd scientist if you want and prophet for a shrine if needed. However this shouldn't stop you from having quite a few artists in the other culture cities just for the 4 culture they produce (6 with Sistine Chapel).


Wonders

In culture games I work on the philosophy that any wonder (that produces culture) is a good wonder. However you should prioritise the following, particularly if your behind in tech or not far ahead:

Broadway
Hollywood
Rock N Roll
Parthenon (especially if Philosophical)
Sistine Chapel
Spiral Minaret (if low on cash)
Statue Of Liberty

These wonders are more than useful though not top of the list:

Notre Dame
Stonehenge
Pyramids
Taj Mahal

Try and get the rest if possible. With regards to national wonders you want:

National Epic (in GP farm)
Globe Theatre (in GP farm ideally)
Hermitage (in city with least culture/turn)
Oxford University


Culture Slider

Balancing the culture slider with research is of personal preference. I generally start at 10% once I get Drama, and move slowly up at the expense of research untill the mid/late industrial age, where its 100% for the finishing straight. Note that if finances take a tumble it should ideally be the research slider not the culture one that is reduced at first. I would say that you are more confident the earlier you stick this up to near full, but I personally like to know I would have a technologically adequate army should Napolean stab me in the back. :cry: I also like to have some research so I can be sure of getting the later wonders needed- Hollywood, Broadway and Rock N Roll.


So theres a crash course in the culture victory. Feel free to comment and be proud that you have one the game with a cultured, peaceful civilised civilisation for once instead of a warmongring, barbaric one. :)
 
Well, I don't think that creative as a leader trait is really all that needed for going for cultural victory. Yes, that sounds counter-intuitive, but give me spiritual, financial, industirous, or philosophical over it any day.
 
I think that Gandhi fits better for a cultural victory as Frederick, if you go for a cultural victory with Fritz, the Panzer is absolutely useless because you will probably not reserach the needed technology, but Gandhi´s fast worker is available all game long. I think you also could include Mansa Musa in your list(financial,spiritual). Plus Mali has a solid UU in the early game.
 
echo DaveMcW.

What level of difficulty are you playing on moggy? Just curious. I have some comments but I'll hold them until you answer.

I will say I'm intrigued to try this with a spiritual leader. In previous games, the civics flexibility would've come in handy in tight spots. Thus far, I have only done cultural victories with Elizabeth and Catherine, and I prefer Elizabeth. The 14+ Great Artists (philosophical, national epic, pacifism = +300% GPP) allow for victories before 1900, this is on prince, I think I'd still lose at monarch; my game is not efficient enough yet.
 
Lecce said:
I think that Gandhi fits better for a cultural victory as Frederick, if you go for a cultural victory with Fritz, the Panzer is absolutely useless because you will probably not reserach the needed technology, but Gandhi´s fast worker is available all game long. I think you also could include Mansa Musa in your list(financial,spiritual). Plus Mali has a solid UU in the early game.

I see your point, but why not just build twice as many workers and have them work in tandem?
 
WaxonWaxov said:
I see your point, but why not just build twice as many workers and have them work in tandem?

The 3 movement points of a Fast Worker have unique advantages, besides saving production time that would otherwise be spent on extra workers:

- In the early game, a Fast Worker is safer working alone on the fringes of your cities or between distant cities (e.g., to make a road connecting them). It's a lot easier to run away from animals, barbarians, and warring civs-- and quickly get back to your job.

- You have faster reaction time in emergencies. For example, if you suddenly need to chop-rush production, you can step onto a forest AND start chopping it in a single turn.

Well, I guess both these advantages can be overcome by having enough "star trek red shirt" workers (i.e., expendable ones) that can spend their teenage years spamming roads everywhere and risking death in the wild. But who wants to spend extra production (and also halt city growth, unless you're chop-rushing) on workers?
 
Check out the Hall of Fame and a few other threads in the forum and you will see that Elizabeth ( philosophical, financial) and Ghandi (spiritual, industrous) are the ones most often used for cultural victories. I normally use Elizabeth and am currently playing at Prince level. Cottages and cathaderals drive my culture points up.

To me the one trait I will not be without is Financial. The added benefits to cottages, coasts, etc can not be ignored. When you flip the slider switch to all cultural all that commerce goes directly to cultural points per turn. Meanwhile you can maintain a solid defensive military and rush build alot of units/buildings. (Yes I know rush buiding is overpowered but if its in the game, then its in the game). Commerce also helps drive the research engine.

You do not have to found any religions, just have open borders so those that found them send missionaries to your cities and establish the religion in your city(s). You can then send your own missionaries to the remaining cities so your citys can all build temples.

IMPORTRANT - DO NOT IGNORE YOUR MILITARY. Even though you are going for a peaceful victory condition if you have a weak military you will soon see Camel Archers and Musketmen inhabiting those pretty culture driven cities you built. When going for culture all but one of my losses are due to a weak defense. Elizabeths mid to late game UU (redcoats) is a solid defensive unit. You just gotta remeber to build units and not just buildings or wonders.

Right now I am trying out the Incas (aggresive, financial) for a Cultural Victory. For some reason he starts with Mysticism just like most of the spiritual leaders. I have founded 2 religions with him :confused: and used my great prophets to build their unique buildings. Missionaries to all the other civs cities and my financial trait has the bonus of an extra gold per city that has the religions:) I'm hoping the aggresive trait and its auto Combat 1 for melee/gunpowder units will make up for an early UU when it comes time to convince the others I'm not to be messed with.
 
Well,

I'm currently playing a game (Warlord, duel, terra) as Frederick against Mao with no Barbarians... I know it's cheesy, just trying to get my first Culture win.

Anyhow, It seems I spend all my efforts in my three culture cities building wonders. By the time I get one done, another is available. I'm grouping the wonders in accordance with my notes sheet three posts above.

Interestingly, I managed to found ALL seven religions. My prophet city has created enough GP's to build all seven shrines.

Is my efforts better served to go for temples/monasteries/catherdrals in these cities ranther than wonders? I guess wonders drive my score up more, but the cumulitive bonues of all those temples would be more.

Also, am I figuring the math right when I say...

Seven religions times seven temples equals +7 culture

PLUS

Seven monasteries equals +14 more culture.

PLUS

Seven catherdrals equals +50%+50%+50%+50%+50%+50%+50% ????
 
WaxonWaxov said:
Also, am I figuring the math right when I say...

Seven religions times seven temples equals +7 culture

PLUS

Seven monasteries equals +14 more culture.

PLUS

Seven catherdrals equals +50%+50%+50%+50%+50%+50%+50% ????

Yes. But I usually win before I finish building monasteries, or even all 21 cathedrals.
 
For the cottage + cathedral strategy, how do you make sure you have max # of religions in your civ? Is the strategy limited to pangea maps, or can you make do with 3-4 religions? I just don't see being able to found all 7 religions on Monarch and it seems that I am well into the industrial age before I have 5 or more religions available (playing continents and the like).
 
You can't found all 7 religions on monarch. At least I highly doubt it. But you don't need all 7, as DaveMcW points out, because you don't need all 21 cathedrals. You can probably get all or at least 3 out of 4 of the late religions, and one of the first three. That should be plenty.

5 religions is about all that's practical to missionize in all your cities anyway... even #5 requires quite a few failed attempts sometimes before a city will take a religion. Trying to get 7 religions, even in just your main 3 cities, will take tons of effort that is probably better used on... just about anything else.
 
I don't think you need more than 3-4 religions. The interesting part is how do you specialize the cities. I find that one of each seems a very good combination - a GP farm gets a lot of culture from specialists, a production city gets it from wonders and a science city from cottages. I haven't tried a cottage-only approach, I am curioius how DaveMcW pulls the win so early with it.
 
You don't need to found any religion. Have open borders with the other civs and they will send missionaries to your ciys. Use the city to build a monastary and spread the religion to the rest of your cities.

2-3 religions are really enough but the more the better. Put temples in all your cities. I use 9 cities. 9 temples=3 cathederals, a cathederal for each of your culture cities.

Wonders are OK but you don't need them either. Concentrate on the temples, cathederals and other culture buildings like library. even obelisks are ok because they generate culture from very early but they are not going to break you if you don't build them.

You can get a culture victory on any map but for me, and for most of the games in HoF, panagea is the best. More civs on your land mass=more missionaries to you cities=more religions in your civ. I have won on a continents map with 3 other civs on my continent.

WAXON- a GP, or great person farm, is a city you use to generate your great artists. Build it in an area with lots of farmable land because you want as high population as you can get. Build all the great artist buildings / wonders here along with happiness buildings like colliseum or the "No unhappiness in this city" National Wonder (can't remember the name:crazyeye: ). Watch your specilist distribution. The AI likes to put your specialists as scientist and engineers but you want all your specialists as artists. This is so you can bank all great artists to use near the end game when you can see which of your 3 culture cities need the 4000 culture points for the great works of the GA.

Do not use your Great Artists early but bank them. Remember one city with 65000 cp and two with 30000cp does not get you a win. Try to get the 3 cities to 50000cp near the same time. Also culture in any city but your 3 key cities doesn't help you at all.

GREENTEA- the commerce/ cottage works several ways. More commerce=more research early on. More comerce=more culture points when you move the slider to 100% culture for the last push. In General, concentrate on your research and getting your tempes, etc built early on. Near mid game you should have researched at least thru liberalism (I prefer to get communism and facism if I can for the Kremlin (1/2 rush cost) and State Proprerty (no maintainance for distance). At this point you build your gold reserves by going 80-100% gold. Get your treasury to a point that it can withstand negative cash flow until the end. I try to get a treasury of 3500-4000gp. Then flip the switch to 100% culture, identify your 3 best cities, use your great artists in your 3 best cities as needed so they get to 50000 at about the same time and watch those 500-700cp per turn put you over the top.
 
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