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- Oct 25, 2000
- Messages
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When I first started to play, communism was my fav gov't. But now my fav is democracy. I can understand why newer players like communism so much, because new players are net very good in keeping people happy.
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The best government?
- Thread starter Archbob
- Start date
I beg to differ Thunderfall. It is relatively easy to keep people happy. New players are not good at it perhaps, but it is an easy skill to learn initially and to modify subsequently as they rise through the difficulty levels.
My experience is that inexperienced players underestimate Communism and plumb for Democracy or Fundamentalism instead. In fact I suggest that the biggest mistake new players make is assuming that there IS a best government outright instead of using the best government for the circumstances.
There aren't many circumstances where, with best play, you would get the most from a game by sticking to any one government type throughout the entire game (from when it became available to you). But there are many players - even experienced players - who are best described as "comfortable". These people are not risk takers. They are not interested in getting the most from a game. They do not seek to maximise the potential of the circumstance they find themselves in. If they can win and get a good score in a normal timeframe by using a familiar strategy, they won't try to improve on that. It takes effort and the willingness to lose sometimes to push the limits of what's available and excel.
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"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage" - Anais Nin
Success is dangerous. One begins to copy oneself,
and to copy oneself is more dangerous than to copy others"
- Pablo Picasso
My experience is that inexperienced players underestimate Communism and plumb for Democracy or Fundamentalism instead. In fact I suggest that the biggest mistake new players make is assuming that there IS a best government outright instead of using the best government for the circumstances.
There aren't many circumstances where, with best play, you would get the most from a game by sticking to any one government type throughout the entire game (from when it became available to you). But there are many players - even experienced players - who are best described as "comfortable". These people are not risk takers. They are not interested in getting the most from a game. They do not seek to maximise the potential of the circumstance they find themselves in. If they can win and get a good score in a normal timeframe by using a familiar strategy, they won't try to improve on that. It takes effort and the willingness to lose sometimes to push the limits of what's available and excel.
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"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage" - Anais Nin
Success is dangerous. One begins to copy oneself,
and to copy oneself is more dangerous than to copy others"
- Pablo Picasso
shadowdale
CFC Drunkard
I have never played anything but Democracy, but after reading all the different strategies in here I might consider changeing my government a few time during a game, like when I go to war!!!
But then again maybe not, Democracy is also an ok government to wage war in!!
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Veni Vidi Vici.
Coolbook:
Håkan Eriksson, Stormerne, vladmir_illych_lenin, Cunobelin Of Hippo, vanillacube.
But then again maybe not, Democracy is also an ok government to wage war in!!
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Veni Vidi Vici.
Coolbook:
Håkan Eriksson, Stormerne, vladmir_illych_lenin, Cunobelin Of Hippo, vanillacube.
gurgelgnutten
Chieftain
My government strat is this:
1. Despotism. Build cities, maintain peace.
2. Monarchy. Build more cities.
3. Republic. Build yet more cities.
4. Democracy. Build even more cities.
5. Democracy+UN. Conquer and don´t bother about reputation.
Fundamentalism is good if you have great troubles with your enemies. It´s the war gov. Just make sure you don´t switch to it before you´ve got Robotics and maybe stealth.
Communism is effective and good for war too. But all governments will be beaten by a democracy in the long run, due to these factors:
*No corruption. Makes a LOT for large empires.
*+1 trade in the tiles. Superhighways make +2... which is three times a commie or fundy.
*"We love the president" makes the cities grow like bamboo. Combined with no corruption, this is great.
1. Despotism. Build cities, maintain peace.
2. Monarchy. Build more cities.
3. Republic. Build yet more cities.
4. Democracy. Build even more cities.
5. Democracy+UN. Conquer and don´t bother about reputation.
Fundamentalism is good if you have great troubles with your enemies. It´s the war gov. Just make sure you don´t switch to it before you´ve got Robotics and maybe stealth.
Communism is effective and good for war too. But all governments will be beaten by a democracy in the long run, due to these factors:
*No corruption. Makes a LOT for large empires.
*+1 trade in the tiles. Superhighways make +2... which is three times a commie or fundy.
*"We love the president" makes the cities grow like bamboo. Combined with no corruption, this is great.
Cunobelin Of Hippo
Site Pachyderm
Anarchy is fun once in a while. Otherwise, I lean towards Democracy for reasons already mentioned over and over.
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I am so great! Gee, arr, ehh, tee! I am so great! Gee, arr, ehh, tee! I mean, my greatness is so obvious! It's all around us! Everywhere you look you will be stunned by my greatness. I can't believe how great I really am.
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I am so great! Gee, arr, ehh, tee! I am so great! Gee, arr, ehh, tee! I mean, my greatness is so obvious! It's all around us! Everywhere you look you will be stunned by my greatness. I can't believe how great I really am.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
There is a point to communism, but I use it only when I'm trying to keep up in science when I'm desparately trying to persue a war, but democracy keeps my defenses up so I usually don't use Communism, its Fundy or democracy for me.
FearlessLeader2
Fundamentalist Loon
I know it is stupid, but my deeply-seated personal bias against oppresive governments has caused me to consciously eschew choosing either Communism or Fundamentalism for my civs, even when it would give me a clear advantage. I know it is just a game, but the idea of tacitly supporting a form of government(Communism) that has casually butchered millions living under its yoke, or a government(Fundamentalism) that places onerous burdens on personal freedom and directly encourages terrorism is just not a thing I can reconcile myself to. <Shrug.> Guess I just take my convictions a little too seriously.
Does that also mean that you never win by world conquest, only by spaceship, lest you impose your regime and its own peculiar set of values on an ungrateful world?
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shadowdale
CFC Drunkard
Well Stormerne!!! It's not really that big a problem to win by conquest even if you onlu play in Democracy!!! You just can't field all that many unites - but since you are almost always ahead in science the few unites that you do field are most likely much better!!!
Or you have loads of cash to buy most of the enemies cities - that's the way I do war!!!
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Veni Vidi Vici.
Coolbook:
Håkan Eriksson, Stormerne, vladmir_illych_lenin, Cunobelin Of Hippo, vanillacube.
Or you have loads of cash to buy most of the enemies cities - that's the way I do war!!!
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Veni Vidi Vici.
Coolbook:
Håkan Eriksson, Stormerne, vladmir_illych_lenin, Cunobelin Of Hippo, vanillacube.
I know that Shadowdale - I can do it too! But that wasn't my point. My point was that FearlessLeader2 claims not to like oppressive regimes, yet it could be argued that world conquest with ANY government type is an act of oppression.
I was gently enquiring after some philosophical consistency, not CivII strategy. In my view, the only approach consistent with his misgivings is a non-conquering approach.
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I was gently enquiring after some philosophical consistency, not CivII strategy. In my view, the only approach consistent with his misgivings is a non-conquering approach.
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Democracy can be very oppressive when you're not a part of it... but that's a discussion for off-topic I think.
I agree with Stormene that a good player is comfortable adapting to circumstances, and thus maximizing each gov't type. Having said that though, I haven't ever had much cause to do anything other than my typical Monarchy-Republic-Democracy. I've been experimenting more with Fund lately (thanks to you good people's ideas), and it's great for war.
But the best is: Democracy with a "Warcity" (ie, a very high shield-producing city containing a barracks and Shakespeare's Theatre). You can easily build a huge number of units AND grow/research at the same time.
I agree with Stormene that a good player is comfortable adapting to circumstances, and thus maximizing each gov't type. Having said that though, I haven't ever had much cause to do anything other than my typical Monarchy-Republic-Democracy. I've been experimenting more with Fund lately (thanks to you good people's ideas), and it's great for war.
But the best is: Democracy with a "Warcity" (ie, a very high shield-producing city containing a barracks and Shakespeare's Theatre). You can easily build a huge number of units AND grow/research at the same time.
Sinsemillia420
Chieftain
Without doubt Fundy is the best gov to go with. usually when I start a game, i research all the techs that will lead me directly up to democracy. while doing this, i build a wonder in one of my big cities. Once i get democracy, i go into the city and switch production from that wonder to statue of liberty and buy it right on the spot. This way i get the statue of liberty for like 100 gold and once built, i switch right over to fundy. my science rate goes from discoveries every 20 turns (approximation) to like discovery every 10 turns. FUNDY all the way.
allhailIndia
Deity
No doubt 'bout it, Fundy is the Best. I get all the Science Wonders which never expire and I get rid of my Science problem.
Andu Indorin
Retired Druid
Fundamentalism is better for fighting Total War than democracy; but once you learn the fine art of fighting Total War as Democracy, you'll never go back to Fundy.
HIEROPHANT
Videogame God
i can defeat any person that plays against me. i have a lot of tricks and traps.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
Of course Fundy is alot better for war. Actually Fundy's income rate is much better than democracy's during midgame because of temples, wonders(chapel), and other stuff. Fundy is for war, Democracy is mainly for research. And that Damn senate is just plain annoying when you are trying to conduct a war in democracy.
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<FONT COLOR="blue"><FONT face="lucida handwriting">"And this is how it all began, where did we mess up?"
</FONT c></FONT f>
Check out Civworld Forms
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<FONT COLOR="blue"><FONT face="lucida handwriting">"And this is how it all began, where did we mess up?"
</FONT c></FONT f>
Check out Civworld Forms
An example. In the current Game of the Month (#2) I've used all but Republic (and Despotism which wasn't an option in this pre-started game). The governments have gone something like this:
* Monarchy
* Communism
* Fundamentalism
* Democracy
* Fundamentalism
* Democracy
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gar13
Warlord
"I know it is just a game, but the idea of tacitly supporting a form of government(Communism) that has casually butchered millions living under its yoke"
well, this isn't technically true. it's the people running the government who do the killing.
anyway, i go like this
1)despotism
2)monarchy (as soon as i can)
3)communism (as soon as i can)
4)democracy (sometimes, but only if i've already take all of my opponent's cities, but 1)
i love communism in this game
well, this isn't technically true. it's the people running the government who do the killing.
anyway, i go like this
1)despotism
2)monarchy (as soon as i can)
3)communism (as soon as i can)
4)democracy (sometimes, but only if i've already take all of my opponent's cities, but 1)
i love communism in this game
Andu Indorin
Retired Druid
The butchering of millions is one reasons I steer clear of the so-called fascism patch. ... But then again, fundamentalism's record on human rights ain't all that great either.
But as Lord Acton wrote: Power corrupts, and absolure power corrupts absolutely. Any system that concentrates political and economic power in the hands of select few will almost inevitably lead to gross abuses.
But as Lord Acton wrote: Power corrupts, and absolure power corrupts absolutely. Any system that concentrates political and economic power in the hands of select few will almost inevitably lead to gross abuses.
