The best way to use Submarines?

[stachnie]

In my recent game I decided to protect my continent with a huge fleet of Submarines (plus some Destroyers, Battleships etc.). I was giving them Flanking I and II promotions to make their withdrawal chance even greater (80%). I had two wars with Saladin who was the greatest power on the other continent (the second one is not finished yet and I am about to invade him in a few turns) and it seems that:

- mass use of Flanking II submarines against Destroyers is a very good idea

- but they are useless against full health Battleships, especially the Combat II ones.

During my present war (when my defenses were ready and I was the one who declared) I have sunk two big Saladin invasion fleets (in total: some 10 Transports, 1 Carrier, some 8 Destroyers, 1 Submarine) with minimal losses (something like 1 Submarine and 1 Missile Cruiser) but then 1 Transport escorted by 2 Battleships appeared and I attacked them with 6 Submarines. The result: 2 Subs were lost, the other ones had withdrawn with minimal effect (one Battleship untouched, one down to about 28). Fortunately, I also had a highly promoted Missile Cruiser (or Battleship) and after it destroyed the strongest enemy ship, my remaining Subs had no problems with the rest.

What is your experience with 'wolfpacks' of submarines? Perhaps it would be better to load some of them with Missile Cruisers?

S.

 

[Artichoker]

What kind of map was this?

I think it would really depend on the size of your/opponents' navy. With a small navy, such as what you would see on a Pangaea map, submarines are less cost efficient for the number of hammers they cost, compared to destroyers or battleships.

But on an archipelago map, it would seem that submarines would be more effective.

 

[stachnie]

What kind of map was this?

Continents with high sea level. Actually, the game is almost over (some 14 turns for the spaceship to arrive and 0.2% land to grab to win via domination - and my forces are mopping up Saladin and Hannibal).

At some point (strong invasions from the other continent) it was very important to have a strong navy (and it turned out I started to build and upgrade it just on time) but now it has nothing interesting to do, just sometimes sink a single enemy ship.

S.

 

[troytheface]

Fractal/Standard

Played a few games where i only built subs , attack subs and a few transports and it worked both times- worked defined as they were able to attack/defend/invade when at war with a selected enemy.

 

[Molybdeus]

The fact that submarines are available after their counter is a major strike against them. If they could be used like privateers they might be good -and more historically accurate- but as is they aren't worth building instead of destroyers.

 

[brades]

I use submarines spaced evenly in the oceans between me and my most powerful advisary. This way I can see if he is preparing a naval invasion long in advance and Ill just DoW on him and sink his stack.

 

[IagoAlberto]

Agreed, the best way by far to use subs is as a picket for your main fleets or in between you and your opponent. I personally prefer attack subs for this task but regular subs work in a pinch, give them flanking+sentry. TBH I rarely use subs for combat unless its against undefended transports or I'm desperate.

Its is a shame that subs suck so much especially attack subs. Since destroyers get sub detection from the beginning, I think that ability should be pushed back to at least radio as there was no reliable way of detecting submarines from surface ships until the advent of ASDIC (sonar) in the late 30's. Remember, destroyers were originally developed to defend the battlefleet by sinking torpedo boats and launching their own torpedo attacks against the enemy battle line. In fact destroyers were not really used as the primary convoy escort/sub hunter until late in world war one. Now while destroyers are vastly more capable of destroying submarines, attack subs still have a big advantage which is unfortunately not reflected in the game but is in the following pictures . . .

 

[SnowlyWhite]

best way to use them... load them with missiles, use them to open with missiles before sending in the barrage battleships when you don't load&save(since then, you'll probably use the fighters for scouting). That before you get to missile cruisers... if you get there that is.

And ok, use them to mop whatever's left if you're short on ships. I promote them flank, navigation, just like carriers - they need to move fast to reload case I only park the fleet to pillage the other continent with fighters(i.e - I have no intention to actually set foot on it, just to stall the bugger). Otherwise, they're remarkably useless...

 

[lordqarlyn]

I use 3-5 unit wolfpacks, carrying missles once I get the tech. The missles really come in handy softening enemy ships, or other types of units for that matter.

 

[troytheface]

or better yet, a few subs with tactical nukes can obliterate any invasion.