The case for a pre Columbian Amazonian Civ

[brett0007]

Now I know on first thought this sounds absolutely absurd, and on the face of it it is, but in my boredom I managed to get a hold of the heftily titled "The discovery of the Amazon according to the account of friar Gaspal de Carvajal and other documents" which records an expedition by Francisco de Orellana looking for "the land of cinnamon". Long story short walking across the Andes is a bad idea. He then proposed to build a ship and sail downstream to get food, and never returned... So the expedition failed, except he and his group survived and sailed all the way from the Andes to the mouth of the Amazon and their encounters were recorded.

Spoiler Summary of Orellana's voyage :

Spoiler Map of approximate locations :

They set off sailing down the napo river with the first village described in any detail is that of the Cambeba, who are variously referred to as "Irimais" and the domains of two chieftains Aparia the lesser and Aparia the great who's domain Is described as 19 days voyage from the former two.
the domain of Aparia the Great is described as

from the moment we had reached the settlements belonging to Aparia[that is to say]after the 19 days we had spoken of, we kept skirting along past fair villages in which we found maize a certain quality of fish and especially turtles and a few macaws, which the Indians are accustomed to keeping in their houses for the pleasure of having them and for the colourful feathers...

A further 12 days downstream they encounter a people that were ruled by a certain Machiparo who's people in contrast attacked them in canoes with arrows in contrast to Aparia's domain

12 leagues on from the domain of Machiparo was a people known to the Cambeba as the Omaga, ruled by Omagua, whose "frontier village" they sacked for supplies. Gaspar makes an odd observation, while sitting down and eating the stolen food he muses about how they must farm and bake bread

This biscuit will seem odd to those who have never seen it, because it is not made of wheat flour, it must be pointed out that the indians posseseed great quantities of large cakes made out of cassava baked hard like biscuit and bread and some bread made out of a mix of maize and yucca.

from there the "Indians" return to retake the village and they sail on, next they stop at "pueblo del la loza"(l porcelainville) which in the process of sacking for supplies they find a pottery manufacturing hub, which is described as "of a vey beautiful sort" and "many esotericas inlaid with gold and silver along with a copper hatchet of the style used by the Peruvians" Gaspar also notes that the group were scared to sleep overnight in the village due to "The many highways that gave easy access to the interior" next they land in a place they dub "pueblo de los bobos(idiotville) due to the docileness of the people there, ne next village ironically attacks them being dubbed "pueblo vicoso"(Viciousville) next they describe the meeting of waters at the confuence of the Rio Negro and amazon, helpfully giving a definite spot to pin down areas.

Downstream of the confluence they describe an encounter with with a large inhabited settlement of "brilliant white buildings on the left shore" that the prevailing conditions prevented them from docking there. The following Wednesday they docked at a settlement "which stood on the bend of a small stream on a very large piece of flat land more than 4 leauges long." "That was laid out around a central street with large square half way down and many houses on both sides".

Further downstream they encounter "the domain of the amazons" and get harassed by the inhabitants and the namesake of the river, a woman with a bow puts out Orellana's eye. later downstream they learn the "amazons" are ruled by a queen called Conori, and in Spanish style they lust after her large amounts of gold and silver, describing its uses in detail. I haven't brought this up yet but there are many vague mentions to "Inland kingdoms rich in gold and silver and Peruvian sheep(presumably llamas I'm guessing?)"

Not far downstream was the "land of the black men" described as being ruled by one Arripuna, "who ruled over a vast land rich in silver and bordered by cannibals." Downstream from there was the mouth of the Amazon and various Carib tribes. he then sailed into the Atlantic and north to Venezuela.

I know full well the Spanish Conquistadors were not the best of historians or sources, but their is mounting evidence that the Amazon was actually heavily populated in pre Colombian times. Terra preta is to put it basically the waste products of the Indigenous peoples, pottery, food leftovers and most importantly charcoal. All man made and its predominantly found in areas where Gaspar reported large settlements.

Spoiler terra preta locations :

Lastly archaeological sites are being discovered in the deforested parts of the Amazon. Large geoglyphs that are apparently the outlines of buildings settlements and enclosures.


Now that I have lain out some evidence, I want to try crafting some Civs in the style of Harappa (human only), first a more definite civ, the Cambeba and a larger less precise Amazonian.



The Cambeba constitute the peoples upstream of the confluence of the Amazon and Rio Negro

the Cambeba Civilization
Leader Aparia the great
UP: Power of terra preta: Can move though jungles, can build improvements in jungles
without removing them.
UB: Pottery workshop(replaces forge) +1 hammer food and happiness per available maize unlocked with pottery
UU:Canoe warrior:replaces skirmisher, starts with woodsman and amphibious.


spawn date 450 bc(oldest terra preta)

UHV1:Control the upper amazon by 100 ad
UHV2:have all your cities connected by roads and 5 improvements by 500 AD
UHV3:have 10 population by 1500 ad

The Amazonian Civilization(also covers the Marajoara culture and Xinguano Civilization among other terra preta creating cultures of the larger Amazon basin)
Leader Aparia the great/queen Conori
UP: Power of terra preta: can move though jungles, can build improvements in jungles without removing them.
UB:Square replaces monument +2 culture, +2 happyness per jungle tile worked
UU:Amazonian bowman: replaces archer starts with woodsman 2


spawn date 450 bc(oldest terra preta)

UHV1:Control the Amazon basin by 300 AD
UHV2:Have 5 million population by 1500 (estimated population of the amazon pre contact, not sure how that converts to pop numbers)
UHV3:have an Amazonian bowman kill a European explorer by 1700

Spoiler civ 4 map :

https://i.imgur.com/bWaWIOE.png

tl;dr it, I've been stuck in my house for 6+ months because of a damn virus and I've read far to much and am probably going stir crazy.

 

[Leoreth]

All those peoples are Tupi/Guarani speaking, correct?

 

[Krieger-FS]

IIRC, the Tupi lived in Brazilian coast, some areas in Central-West region and in Southern Amazon. I'm not totally sure, but I think that it was the Caribs and Jê people (the term refers basically to non-Tupi-Guarani speakers) that lived around the river.

 

[phoenixfire7]

Workshop isn't a building so it can't be UB

It would be cool to have a unique improvement nonetheless

 

[brett0007]

All those peoples are Tupi/Guarani speaking, correct?

In the case of the Cambeba, yes but in the larger Amazonian one would include the Xingu which share a ethnic identity but
speak various different languages.

Workshop isn't a building so it can't be UB

It would be cool to have a unique improvement nonetheless

Sorry I meant forge.

 

[hnrysml]

I think this is a great idea and from outlined ideas for how the civ(s) would be included in the game it sounds like it would be fun and unique to play

 

[Strijder21]

How would this work AI-wise? Their cities get ruined upon collapse, similarly like the Harappa?

 

[brett0007]

How would this work AI-wise? Their cities get ruined upon collapse, similarly like the Harappa?

Harappa don't spawn as an AI civ. The ruins are just placed on the map.

 

[Leoreth]

No, AI Harappa has been enabled for a long time.

 

[brett0007]

No, AI Harappa has been enabled for a long time.

Huh, I thought you had to enable it in the config. Ya learn something new every day. On topic the reason for the collapse of the Amazonian population was old world pandemic sickness so maybe some scripted event that disestablishes the cities?

 

[Derdan]

You'd know if it you ever played Babylon and they research one of your UHV techs before you or if you play as India and Delhi is razed half the time

 

[brett0007]

You'd know if it you ever played Babylon and they research one of your UHV techs before you or if you play as India and Delhi is razed half the time

I tend to play later civs since I'm not up on the best city meta. Although I have played India a lot and never had Delhi raised

 

[WorstCiv4Player]

I think a Tiwanaku civ might be more valuable. They would give the Inca more company and in modern times they could become Bolivia.

 

[brett0007]

I think a Tiwanaku civ might be more valuable. They would give the Inca more company and in modern times they could become Bolivia.

They aren't mutually exclusive.