I have nothing against art teams, I just don't want them messing with my strategy game.
There are a fair few posts around on how hideously cartoonish Civ IV looks compared to Civ III, a point with which I agree myself.
The Civ V wish-list!!!
- Thread starter Logitech
- Start date
I have nothing against art teams, I just don't want them messing with my strategy game.
There are a fair few posts around on how hideously cartoonish Civ IV looks compared to Civ III, a point with which I agree myself.
And some of us want those differences removed too.
Seriously, if the game's deep and complex enough, "traits" will emerge from your choice of strategy. I'd rather like it if the game assessed your play style every once in a while - once per Age given a model of seven or eight Ages as I have proposed elsewhere - and gave you the bonuses of the "traits" you were playing most like. [ Either that it gave you Militarist and Expansionist if you were more Militarist and Expansionist than you were Scientific and Religious, or Militarist and Expansionist if you were among the more Militarist and Expansionist players in that particular game. This does of course only work if the trait bonuses are well balanced and the relative importance of military build-up is reduced overall. ]
Better combat with less micromanaging of 100 tank units...
Maybe you move your units into "engagement" with the enemy by occupying the same square. Each turn both sides do X attrition (like bombardment) damage to each other until one side wins. Flanking, more units, terrain, etc all affect the attrition rate. A stack of 30 infantry fighting 10 machine gunners over a city might take a super long time. 10 tanks vs 1 warrior would be instant. This would make for nice stable battlefields with a bit more strategy.
Cities shouldn't get instantly demolished if taken, or rebuilding the destroyed buildings should have a "repair" time instead of building from scratch. It'd allow for a bit more back and forth type wars. Maybe when you take a city you get the options to keep it, raze it, and pacify the rebel alliance by brutally sacking any resistors. IE, reduce population but make it peaceful much quicker.
RTS battles with turn based big map, ala Total War. But that's more my suggestion for the TW game to get random maps... the thing that keeps me coming back to Civ for over a decade.
Maybe you move your units into "engagement" with the enemy by occupying the same square. Each turn both sides do X attrition (like bombardment) damage to each other until one side wins. Flanking, more units, terrain, etc all affect the attrition rate. A stack of 30 infantry fighting 10 machine gunners over a city might take a super long time. 10 tanks vs 1 warrior would be instant. This would make for nice stable battlefields with a bit more strategy.
Cities shouldn't get instantly demolished if taken, or rebuilding the destroyed buildings should have a "repair" time instead of building from scratch. It'd allow for a bit more back and forth type wars. Maybe when you take a city you get the options to keep it, raze it, and pacify the rebel alliance by brutally sacking any resistors. IE, reduce population but make it peaceful much quicker.
RTS battles with turn based big map, ala Total War. But that's more my suggestion for the TW game to get random maps... the thing that keeps me coming back to Civ for over a decade.
And cities that can build both buildings AND military units at the same time. Obviously continually pumping out units can be bad for the economy.
I'm the kind of player that loves wars, but I hate making units when I could improve my cities. So the only wars I ever start are stealth bombers and modern armor....
I'm the kind of player that loves wars, but I hate making units when I could improve my cities. So the only wars I ever start are stealth bombers and modern armor....
Lexicus
Deity
Build three drydocks, build three ships at a time. Build four barracks, build four land units at a time. Build two Factories, build two tanks or planes or something at a time.
You should be able to build duplicates of certain buildings (like the above).
Barracks--required to create infantry units. Then, you can build as many as you want, and that's the number of foot units you can produce at a time. Factories or Assembly plants would be required to build tanks and planes. No building is initially required to build ships--but build a Harbor and get a ship production bonus. Build a drydock and get another bonus, plus the ability to build two ships at once. For multiple drydocks, you wouldn't get extra production bonus for ships, but you would be able to build more than one at a time.
Stables would be allowed with whatever tech gives you Chariots, and then once you get Horseback Riding, they give extra EXP. More than one Stable would allow production of more than one Mounted Unit at a time.
You can only build one building at a time, though.
You should be able to build duplicates of certain buildings (like the above).
Barracks--required to create infantry units. Then, you can build as many as you want, and that's the number of foot units you can produce at a time. Factories or Assembly plants would be required to build tanks and planes. No building is initially required to build ships--but build a Harbor and get a ship production bonus. Build a drydock and get another bonus, plus the ability to build two ships at once. For multiple drydocks, you wouldn't get extra production bonus for ships, but you would be able to build more than one at a time.
Stables would be allowed with whatever tech gives you Chariots, and then once you get Horseback Riding, they give extra EXP. More than one Stable would allow production of more than one Mounted Unit at a time.
You can only build one building at a time, though.
Of course; every opportunity to micromanage is one more way of perfecting one's game.
Incidentally, what makes you think I'm a "he" ?
It's like when I pick a weird-shaped pear from the apple stand at the grocery store. I expect an apple because, you know, I was picking from the apple stand. Of course, the apple and pear stands aren't that far apart so, it's possible.
PS: I just re-read my previous post, I meant "how can you be AGAINST" in there... Not "about". Everybody cares. I go editing now.
Logitech
A Person.
Okay, everyone, I need your attention!!!
Starting tomorow, I will not be near a computer for a week, so I want you all to put your top ten or so favorite changes or additions for civ 5 in one post, so that I can put your ideas in faster when I get back. Also, I have run out of space on the First Post, so I have, and forevermore will put the list in a document for Microsoft Word. When I get back, I'll upload it for all to see.
Starting tomorow, I will not be near a computer for a week, so I want you all to put your top ten or so favorite changes or additions for civ 5 in one post, so that I can put your ideas in faster when I get back. Also, I have run out of space on the First Post, so I have, and forevermore will put the list in a document for Microsoft Word. When I get back, I'll upload it for all to see.
GeneralX
Warlord
OK, all requests in one hit:
1. Networks Build a power station in one city and if the city isnt large enough to use all the power then it can be shared with other cities so long as they are connected to a power grid.
2. The need to construct oil pipelines as well as a well to a city before you can make use of it and to a port or a city in a rival Civ before you can export it.
3. Loans Make loans of gold for a one off 5% interest payment to rival Civs. Negotiate the number of turns to pay it back.
4. Combat screen with the ability to direct one of your units to attack a specific enemy unit. Once all match-ups are set initiate the combat turn. Repeat the process until one side is the victor, or one side withdraws.
5. Allow the customisation of leaders so that you can make one up for a given Civ and determine the character traits. Why is it there is no leader that is Philosophical/Industrious?
6. I dont like units having one score of attack and defence. I would like scores for attack, defence, morale and movement.
7. Allow artillery to do stand-off attacks. Artillery is quite capable of causing damage to an enemy unit without having to engage in one-on-one combat. They wont destroy them but the bombardment will at least soften up the opposing unit for an attack.
Now that I have added my small bit I will rest confident in the knowledge that although I have posted something it will more than likely be ignored.
1. Networks Build a power station in one city and if the city isnt large enough to use all the power then it can be shared with other cities so long as they are connected to a power grid.
2. The need to construct oil pipelines as well as a well to a city before you can make use of it and to a port or a city in a rival Civ before you can export it.
3. Loans Make loans of gold for a one off 5% interest payment to rival Civs. Negotiate the number of turns to pay it back.
4. Combat screen with the ability to direct one of your units to attack a specific enemy unit. Once all match-ups are set initiate the combat turn. Repeat the process until one side is the victor, or one side withdraws.
5. Allow the customisation of leaders so that you can make one up for a given Civ and determine the character traits. Why is it there is no leader that is Philosophical/Industrious?
6. I dont like units having one score of attack and defence. I would like scores for attack, defence, morale and movement.
7. Allow artillery to do stand-off attacks. Artillery is quite capable of causing damage to an enemy unit without having to engage in one-on-one combat. They wont destroy them but the bombardment will at least soften up the opposing unit for an attack.
Now that I have added my small bit I will rest confident in the knowledge that although I have posted something it will more than likely be ignored.
Scilly_guy
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2006
- Messages
- 403
Aye I am up for a bit more being ignored, its always fun:
In no particular order
1. "Unions" that I have suggested several times
2. Morale
3. Quantifiable resources
4. Trade routes require protecting (think trans atlantic during WW1 & 2, silk road)
5. Truly spherical map, no corners, can cross poles
6. Seasons, global warming affects them
7. Changes to troop production, and production in general (materials and man power in stead of hammers/shields)
8. Unique units rewarded for missions (like first to circumnavigate the globe receives +1 water movement), I have a post on it somewhere.
9. More levels of complexity, I understand that it has to be accessible but that doesn't mean you have to learn everything within the first 10 minutes.
10. Further the espionage system, give spies promotions as I have mentioned all over the place.
11 because I am greedy. Different types of researchers, a pacifist state should not be eager/willing to research weapons. Possibly the two tier research tree that someone mentioned, where by you might research gunpowder and this opens up the possibility to research cannons and fireworks and once chemistry or some other tech has been discovered as well, you can develop bullets. Muskets would come somewhere inbetween.
In no particular order
1. "Unions" that I have suggested several times
2. Morale
3. Quantifiable resources
4. Trade routes require protecting (think trans atlantic during WW1 & 2, silk road)
5. Truly spherical map, no corners, can cross poles
6. Seasons, global warming affects them
7. Changes to troop production, and production in general (materials and man power in stead of hammers/shields)
8. Unique units rewarded for missions (like first to circumnavigate the globe receives +1 water movement), I have a post on it somewhere.
9. More levels of complexity, I understand that it has to be accessible but that doesn't mean you have to learn everything within the first 10 minutes.
10. Further the espionage system, give spies promotions as I have mentioned all over the place.
11 because I am greedy. Different types of researchers, a pacifist state should not be eager/willing to research weapons. Possibly the two tier research tree that someone mentioned, where by you might research gunpowder and this opens up the possibility to research cannons and fireworks and once chemistry or some other tech has been discovered as well, you can develop bullets. Muskets would come somewhere inbetween.
OK, in summary:
1. Bring back separate attack and defence strengths as in Civ 3, and firepower and hit points as in Civ 2, and scrap the rock-paper-scissors model of who is strongest against whom. Scrap unit promotions.
2. Scrap civics and bring back fixed governments, about a dozen or so, with capabilities upgrading significantly so you essentially have to change government several times during the game to keep up.
3. Have about four hundred techs in total, most of which (>90%) are not optional, split over at least seven distinct Ages (ancient, classical, medieval, renaissance, industrial, modern, space age, optional future ages). Increase the number of units and wonders appropriately, allow production to shift freely between them, and make the wonders worth something, like in Civ 2/3, rather than nerfed as in Civ 4. Average unit strengths should at least double over the course of any age, so that more advanced units are exponentially more likely to defeat earlier ones.
4. Have air units be real units, as in Civ 1/2; have sea units be capable of attacking land units as in Civ 2. Have more stealth units, more "soft" units (missionary, corporate executive) and upgradeable caravan-type, diplomat-type, spy-type, worker-type and settler-type units. Have settlers and workers cost population points rather than stalling growth.
5. Scrap the culture slider; have culture be purely a function of what you build. Allow culture to convert enemy cities. Have a cumulative chance that any enemy unit on your territory will be converted by your culture. Change the culture win condition to converting the entire planet to your culture.
6. Have finite resources, which contain a fixed amount of productivity. Allow some of them to become more productive with increased tech. Have trading any resource require building a caravan and getting it to its destination.
7. Bring back corruption (with multiple Forbidden Palace-type small wonders becoming available over time), pollution, unhappy citizens and civil disorder and the +50% bonus for railroads.
8. Allow multiple "layers" of terrain improvement (irrigation/farming with chemical pesticides/GM crops, second and third layers of mining with gunpowder/robotics, road/railroad/high-speed rail) and other forms of improvement (bridges across straits; coastal sea conversion to polders; sea square modification with workers on boats, rather than one-use work boats; late-game terraforming of any kind of terrain.) There should be no unusable squares.
9. Scrap unique units, buildings, and leader traits. Have the "traits" of a civilisation arise dynamically from the player's strategic choices; empower numerous different strategic choices as equally valid ways to win. Keep civilisations distinct by personality, strategy, and preferred choices, not by look-and-feel. The graphics need to tell you what a unit is, whose it is, how healthy it is, and what it is doing. If they succeed at doing that they can look like Civ 1.
10. Optional underwater and more detailed space exploration/colonisation options should be made available with optional future ages, working as distinct maps a la Civ2:ToT.
In summary: There are any number of empire management games out there. What makes Civ Civ is that the empire arises as an emergent property of the cities and all the smaller-scale decisions involved. Do not weaken this by forcing the player to use larger-scale coarser tools or blocking them from fine-detail optimisation of every detail of their empire. Yes, I do mean "more micromanagement", at least as an available option.
(Oh, and have a big sign come up every time you start the game saying "This is a game. Approximations have been made for the sake of gameplay. If you have problems with the realism of these approximations, they're your problem; please do not whine about them on CivFanatics. Particularly if they involve spearmen beating tanks." I know, that's getting really implausible, but still, I can dream.)
Scilly_guy
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2006
- Messages
- 403
I don't care that a spearman can beat a tank, my main realism arguments are about a precedent, and with the map, about poles, the world is not a cylinder, I get that it is a lot easier that way, I just handed my dissertation in on the subject, but a spherical map could be so much more interesting.
I get that some people do over use the realism thing, and yes it is silly.
I get that some people do over use the realism thing, and yes it is silly.
WICKLC1
King
1. separate attack and defense
2. Multiple unique units for every civ
3. more vassal state options
4. weapons sales
5. more units
6. promotions for spies and more espionage options like assasinations
7. nuclear bomb unit which can be loaded onto certain air units
8. ranged artillary
9. better air combat. have the option to send your fighters out to attack your enemy's air units.
10. more religions
11. spherical maps with crossable poles so i can make air bases on them and have entire hemispheres within reach of my bombers.
12. a midair refueling unit. This is very important in modern warfare. with midair refueling american bombers bombed baghdad from the continental usa.
2. Multiple unique units for every civ
3. more vassal state options
4. weapons sales
5. more units
6. promotions for spies and more espionage options like assasinations
7. nuclear bomb unit which can be loaded onto certain air units
8. ranged artillary
9. better air combat. have the option to send your fighters out to attack your enemy's air units.
10. more religions
11. spherical maps with crossable poles so i can make air bases on them and have entire hemispheres within reach of my bombers.
12. a midair refueling unit. This is very important in modern warfare. with midair refueling american bombers bombed baghdad from the continental usa.
1. No need for worker unit. Ask your empire to work a tile as a farm, or a mine, and mines and farms should develop on that tile as your citizens work there, more time as a farm means more productive farm for instance... productivity depends on land type ... Roads happen between cities by themselves because citizens need them. Later you can take the decision to upgrade them to highways... Anyway, worker unit is flawed to me.
2. Build weapons, mobilize armies when war comes.
3. Multi-directional and ameliorated diplomacy.
4. Finite resources is pretty popular. More resource types too with more varied uses. Would increase the decisions and variety of possibilities of what you can do with your land.
5. If the war is still done with units walking across the world for centuries, at least make air units more important later on.
6. Be bold, evolve. We already have previous Civ games to go back to if we want to play the same game again and again.
2. Build weapons, mobilize armies when war comes.
3. Multi-directional and ameliorated diplomacy.
4. Finite resources is pretty popular. More resource types too with more varied uses. Would increase the decisions and variety of possibilities of what you can do with your land.
5. If the war is still done with units walking across the world for centuries, at least make air units more important later on.
6. Be bold, evolve. We already have previous Civ games to go back to if we want to play the same game again and again.
RedRalph
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2007
- Messages
- 20,708
Well, by multi-directional, I just mean that there can be more than you and one AI in a deal. That one comes up often I think. It just means that 4 civs could join up in a single deal of sorts (mostly military alliances, but it could also be embargos and all). Right now, you can do it individually by asking everyone you want in on the deal... one after the other... As if video-conferences or conference-calls are unavailable to the leaders, hehe. Maybe you could convince 3-4 other civilizations at once to do an embargo on the ever-huge Ethiopian empire... Right now no civilization will want to join you in the embargo because it's always just "I ask you to stop trading with that person" and not "Would you join the 3 of us in an embargo on that person"... As for ameliorated, well, it's just generally improved AI. I'd like to feel like my civilization is *part of* the world, and not the *focus of* all other civilizations.
Zenon_pt
Civing on the real world
I can't remember if I already write it, but:
BRING BACK EARTH's MAP!!!
BRING BACK EARTH's MAP!!!
Wow. I think I disagree with ALL of those.
sangeli
Major General
Ya, i agree with what the last guy said. But I have a few suggestions that other people have mentioned and agree with
1. The option of having real borders should be available because whereas in ancient mods cultural borders are realistic, in more modern mods fixed borders are more realistic.
2. Real resources and man power - I think scilly guy mentioned this. To me it seems stupid that having lots of workshops makes making a factory faster. Instead, all workpoints should come from specialist worker unit (like the engineer but give it real value) that is capped by the number of factories and such buildings. About resources, each thing you make in a city should consume a certain amount of resources. I don't know why Civ is the only game like this without this feature, starcraft, age of empires, and pretty much every game have something resembling this. Also, fuel and ammunition for units should be a factor in usage (so that you can't make a million tanks even though you have only one source of oi).
3. Directional fortification - I don't even know how many times I have suggested this, but not once has anyone ever responded to it. Basically, just pick the direction you want your unit to fortify in for a bonus if the attacker comes from that direction. Pretty simple and realistic. Also it makes flanking a real thing thats not just some stupid promotion that actually has nothing to do with real flanking.
4. Improved Diplomacy - Diplomacy in Civ 4 is just terrible. You can't make treaties that involve more than one nation which is just ridiculous. Also, there needs to an option for secret alliances against nations, not just league of nations-esque defensive pacts.
Note: To all those who want more units, or more techs, or more turns, don't suggest it please. Those are problems easily fixable in mods that people make. You should only suggest things that are very difficult or impossible for modders to implement: all the gameplay stuff.
1. The option of having real borders should be available because whereas in ancient mods cultural borders are realistic, in more modern mods fixed borders are more realistic.
2. Real resources and man power - I think scilly guy mentioned this. To me it seems stupid that having lots of workshops makes making a factory faster. Instead, all workpoints should come from specialist worker unit (like the engineer but give it real value) that is capped by the number of factories and such buildings. About resources, each thing you make in a city should consume a certain amount of resources. I don't know why Civ is the only game like this without this feature, starcraft, age of empires, and pretty much every game have something resembling this. Also, fuel and ammunition for units should be a factor in usage (so that you can't make a million tanks even though you have only one source of oi).
3. Directional fortification - I don't even know how many times I have suggested this, but not once has anyone ever responded to it. Basically, just pick the direction you want your unit to fortify in for a bonus if the attacker comes from that direction. Pretty simple and realistic. Also it makes flanking a real thing thats not just some stupid promotion that actually has nothing to do with real flanking.
4. Improved Diplomacy - Diplomacy in Civ 4 is just terrible. You can't make treaties that involve more than one nation which is just ridiculous. Also, there needs to an option for secret alliances against nations, not just league of nations-esque defensive pacts.
Note: To all those who want more units, or more techs, or more turns, don't suggest it please. Those are problems easily fixable in mods that people make. You should only suggest things that are very difficult or impossible for modders to implement: all the gameplay stuff.
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