the cossack

[gunkulator]

Imagine you have 10 cavalry next to a city and you have ten cossacks next to a city. How many attacks can you make with the cavalry? Ten. How many attacks can you make with the Cossack? Up to 30!

Let's ignore artillery for a moment. Using the Civ3 combat calculator, a typical cossack battle (cossack vs. fortified musket in a city) gives a 61.3% chance for the cossack to lose. There go 6 of your 10 cossacks right away. Of the 4 winners, only 1/3 will have 3 or 4 hps left. Presumably you wouldn't attack again with just 1 or 2 hps left. So out of 10, usually 1 but sometimes 2 cossacks will be healthy enough for a second attack. So you really only get 11 (sometimes 12) attacks vs 10
for cavalry attacks. Fine. I'll rush build 1 or 2 more cavalry and I have the equivalent. In either case it is best to have a surplus of units so that battles are never decided by depending on having a single extra attack.

As for artillery. Yes, you can redline the defenders down to 1 or 2 hps making things easier. A veteran cossack has a pretty good chance of winning twice (~80%), automatically gaining elite status. Assuming around 5 defenders for a city (usually 3 or 4 muskets plus a junk unit or two like a longbowman), a militaristic civ has a 76% chance of getting an elite while a non militaristic has 49% chance. I'll concede that this clearly gives an edge to the Russians over non-militaristics, but only at the start of a war. As more and more individual cavalry units are promoted to elite the difference steadily dimishes.

Still, there is an edge there for artillery users and I must admit I've never tried the Russians. I always soften the enemy with lotsa cannons. Hmm. Alright, guys. You've piqued my interest. I'm gonna give the Russians a try next time. Does anyone know their starting techs offhand?

 

[Tomoyo]

The only problem would be that, when attacking muskets, sometimes your cossack will be too hurt to attack again. Those that do will have a low survival rate, too.

...and Renata is right, any unit that wins twice will get promoted. Also, a conscript unit of a militaristic civ successfully attacking will always promote.

 

[Tomoyo]

Does anyone know their starting techs offhand?

Pottery and Bronze Working.

 

[SimpleMonkey]

Combine with cannons, attacking only redlined units, it sure gives u lots of elites.

I bet that that's what makes all the difference. I still haven't played a game as the Russians (although this conversation is really making me want to make them my next epic game), but in the last couple of my wins (one Dom with Iriqouis, one Spaceships with the Maya), Cavalry COMBINED WITH ARTILLERY were my path to big conquest all the way until I got Modern Armor. Redline everyone with sufficient arty, and the cav's 3 movement can mean taking out 4 or 5 or more AI cities per turn.

 

[Bagatur]

I tried them once in multiplayer. My cousin got angry with my MGLs Having that much MGLs for most usable improvement rush - factory , and in railroad times(u can rush immediatelly , using rails to bring leader at needed place) gives u a noticable edge in this period. Lets not ignore artilery. I dont attack city when I expect more losses than victories, except in cases where I badly need to have this point rite now! Attacking with no artilery is just spreading resources around, u all know it. Such losses are unbareble at high levels, so artilery taking part makes cossack extremaly usefull.

Another good thing cossacks can get place is MGL farming areas. I often do this - I let one small civ to have lets say 4-5 towns closed by ocean and my border. In period they have unvention up to nationalism(of course u denied them from any resource), they will attack with longbows. One cossack can pick two, even three per turn with no problem and distracted units, dedicated for leader generation will be lets say - 3-4, only replaced if someone made leader already. If enemy cities are big enough and difficulty level is high, AIs can produce one longbow each two turns in a city. If they have 6 cities left, this means three longbows each turn - can be handled with 3 cossacks, bringing u average 1 MGL per 4 turns. I havent seen city able to produce factory in 4 turns

 

[budweiser]

If anyone wants to try Cossacks, I can try and post a 1.22 C3C save after I get out of work. Its a large pangea, demi-god. I have already made two great assaluts, but with a few turns work you can build up another one. There is one nation, sumeria that is ripe for conquest. If you want, there is an island full of dutch that are completely backwards right on top of Sumeria. After that, you are faced with france to the west and zulu to the east, both with bigger armies than you, but still peaceful for the moment. These two foes have large cavalry forces already built, but neither side has replaceable parts yet. So, you will be faced with a potential cavaly/cossack clash. Hmmmm, I wonder who would win.

 

[majk-iii]

Whoever is human. (meaning strategy)
Whoever has the largest production-apparatus.
Whoever has patience.

I know the Kossack has it's advantages, but i like UU's to be spectaculary different like for example; the berserks, the Ansar warriors or the Siphais... allthough expensive they can, with a little luck/planning, counter and halt/wipe any attacking stack of tanks.

 

[Renata]

The only problem would be that, when attacking muskets, sometimes your cossack will be too hurt to attack again. Those that do will have a low survival rate, too.

It wouldn't be a quantum leap over cavs-with-no-blitz, true. I bet it could still be very very effective with proper tactics, even without artillery support -- just attack the outlying towns first to get the elites, or hold back a couple of turns to pick off the enemy's low-defense attackers. Send a few Explorers to cut off saltpeter and/or iron. Then go to town against the cities, and use the blitz to gain an extra edge where needed. (I almost never bring artillery along on a cavs-vs-muskets bash. Too slow when I can average better than a town per turn without them, with sustainable losses.)

I can't believe I played a whole Russian game in C3C recently, with plenty of Cossack action, and never realized about the blitz -- or the change in defense stats for that matter. I'm so used to attacking only once with Cavs and holding injured units overnot having it that I never even "accidentally" attacked with a Cav that'd already been used. :crazyeyes:

Renata

 

[Abaddon]

also its not a wasted tech to get them as AI values it quite highly

 

[budweiser]

Here is the save I was talking about. Its C3c 1.22.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Catherine_of_the_Russians,_1140_AD.SAV

 

[Admiral8Q]

Russians are one of my favorite Civs to play. I do use the Cossacks to hit the GA, and find them very usefull in rampaging accross the countryside wiping out civs along the way. My strategy differs in there use however. I tend to use half my Cossacks on offense and half on defense. After my attacking force has been damaged, the high speed of the cossacks allow me to move the defensive ones out to replace the offensive ones and... well it becomes a cycle. Actually I usually have a three step cycle as I build more cossacks.

Ok, now I know you could argue that the same thing can be done with regular calvary. I find cossacks more, maybe even twice as effective for several reasons. For one, I go deep into enemy territory and pillage resources, luxuries and strategic, and because of the extra defense on Cossacks, they get that extra edge on enemy counter attacks. Everyone seems focused only on attacking cities when talking about war, but drawing units out of the cities can be a great way to weaken there deffense rather then assault directly. So after the enemy has counter attacked, and assuming some Cossacks have survived, with the fast movement factor you can quickly wipe out units that are either unfortified or damaged, or both.

Secondly, because you hit the GA with Cossacks, you imediately have an increase in... well... everything! Swarming the enemy with any Calvary is a great thing, but because you are now in the GA, it becomes a super advantage!

 

[Bagatur]

You are speakign for both increased defence and blitz. Defence is in CivIII vanilla, while blitz is in C3C with normal defence of 3.

 

[Admiral8Q]

You are speakign for both increased defence and blitz. Defence is in CivIII vanilla, while blitz is in C3C with normal defence of 3.

Ok, my bad, I'll fix that. I was focusing on defense, but the fast movement is what I meant by blitz.

 

[greekguy]

Even though the cossack is a decent unit the Russians are still not an amazing civ. Expansionist is useless and Scientific is only OK. So once russia can even get the cossack they're probably already behind in the game. One good unit won't be able to save a lot of russian games IMO.

 

[vikingruler]

the Russians are still not an amazing civ. Expansionist is useless and Scientific is only OK. So once russia can even get the cossack they're probably already behind in the game. One good unit won't be able to save a lot of russian games IMO.

first of all expansionist is a nice trait. it can really help in the early game. first of all you get a scout to start with in the beggining of the game which means you can find a ton of civs early. also, the goody huts are a lot nicer so you can easily get a tech lead, if the huts give some techs. scientific is also a really good trait. cheap libraries means you get more research because they increase research in the city built in and more literacy(demographics) and you get a new tech at the start of each era. in the medieval ages thats huge because the 3 starting techs are more expensive and very valuable especially if you get them first, you can easily go straight for knights(chivarly) or Leonardo's workshop (invention) way ahead of the AI! also, in the IA if you get any of the starting techs first, thats huge, because each one has a great benefit and the AI will want them. in the MA it doesn't matter as much unless you want a SS win (techs are all in the MA and expensive, one tech lead could buy you enought time to get all the needed techs first, winning easier) or a diplo win, the UN comes in the MA. even a conquest win, if you haven't already, if you get modern armor first, thats huge scientific will also help you in getting military tradition, getting the cossack easier and first, so AI will still have muskets when you have the cossack, the russian UU and traits really work together really well!! As for being behind in the game, i highly doubt that, with the combination of scientific and expanisonist you'll probably be winning the game!

 

[greekguy]

Still Russia will have a hard time getting a millitary. Without being industrial or commericial you have no way to balance all the corruption you get leading to less production and less units. Also to get the full advantage of scientific you need to switch to a peacetime government, which will make it harder to provide for a big army, i.e. lots of cossacks. When you have cossack attack you ethier have either a small army of cossacks in democracy or a big army of them against rifleman (and probably tons of them). Also getting the cossack means researching an optional tech as a primary goal, slowing down your advance into the Industrial Age. Basically the prerequistes for the cossack make it an almost useless unit for its particular civ based on how much you need to work to make it useful.

Plus Cathy is not easy one the eyes.

 

[vikingruler]

Still Russia will have a hard time getting a millitary. Without being industrial or commericial you have no way to balance all the corruption you get leading to less production and less units. Also to get the full advantage of scientific you need to switch to a peacetime government, which will make it harder to provide for a big army, i.e. lots of cossacks. When you have cossack attack you ethier have either a small army of cossacks in democracy or a big army of them against rifleman. Also getting the cossack means researching an optional tech as a primary goal, slowing down your advance into the Industrial Age. you need to work to make it useful.

Greekguy, everything you said is WRONG :thumbdown First of all you said russia will have a hard to time get a military because of corruption. industrious and commercial have very little or no effect. commercial comes in when you get metropolis which is with hospitals.(long time away) also, industrious is only 50% quicker worker actions and that has no effect on corruption and what are you talking about in having to go to a peactime government the whole point of scientfic and the cossack working together is getting a tech lead, thus getting cossacks faster.(certain techs are required and getting one of the 3 starting techs first gives you a head start) and with the democracy and a peace-time government, you just need a government like republic, low war weariness and fast techs, so its peacetime and wartime you also mentioned riflemen, makes no sense, because FROM EXPERIENCE, the AI goes for military tradition, that also disproves the entire optional tech thing! and again with the small military, military tradition is vital if u want a military, the strongest unit before cavlary is KNIGHTS.

 

[klopolov]

I could not agree more with Viking ruler. Always playing for Russia, I've never experienced a lack of military. In a normal random map, I was never behind bad enough to quit the game, and when I was behind, a QUICK and successful Cossack war gave me the techs, money, terrirory and a Golden Age! As for Expantionist trait being useless: how about 3-6 techs, a settler, 50-100 gold, early contacts and 2-5 warriors in the beginning on a large continental map most of the time sound to you? How do you fall behind that badly that you can't have any millitary with that start?

 

[gunkulator]

Greekguy: Military Tradition is one of the key technologies of the game. Even if you couldn't build Cavalry and Cossacks with it, it's main value is the ability to build armies. I always beeline for MT and try to catch the AI defending with Muskets, or better yet, Pikes.

 

[fishpimp]

Also to get the full advantage of scientific you need to switch to a peacetime government, which will make it harder to provide for a big army, i.e. lots of cossacks. When you have cossack attack you ethier have either a small army of cossacks in democracy or a big army of them against rifleman (and probably tons of them)

There's a great article in the war academy on waging a successful war with a Democratic government. I recently employed the strategies detailed in this article while playing as Russia, and rampaged across 3 nations on a large Pangea map for about 30 turns without any war weary issues. The Cossack/Arty combo I found to be particularly effective. Unfortunatly, as I posted earlier, I didn't get a MGL until the turn before I won.