The Doviello!!!!

[Onionsoilder]

I agree with Senethro here. +2 hammers on Tundra, even after Hunting, is simply too much. As I said before, the Doviello aren't supposed to like tundra, they just can survive there when nothing else is available. Giving them +1 hammers on tundra is fine, since it makes it equivalent to plains.

 

[Valkrionn]

Personally, I like my implementation for them. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=317945

Though it's been updated to account for the new Animals in RifE... Some different animals, tweaked mechanics, etc. Posting that link is just easier than making a new list.

 

[Tasunke]

well ...

At the very least, giving Charadon the Charismatic Promotion, giving Battlmasters 25% tundra and 25% melee, and making +1 hammers on tundra, sounds good.

 

[Onionsoilder]

There are a few changes I like in that mod Valkrionn, but a most of it doesn't fit into the Doviello I have in my mind...

And I Mahala as more Charismatic than Charadon, Tas, but I guess that could work if Mahala got Organized instead.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Mahala as Charismatic? No, not really. Her people have idolized Charadon for centuries, enough to bring him back from the dead for a chance to follow the legend again. Mahala isn't even that popular. Her only real fan is Lucien, who happens to be the best greatest Doviello since Charadon and is almost as charismatic, much smarter, and completely loyal to Mahala.


In my version I just added the ability for the Doviello melee UUs to steal weapons promotions and also send food or production to a nearby city with each kill (food if the victim is an animal, production otherwise).

 

[Valkrionn]

There are a few changes I like in that mod Valkrionn, but a most of it doesn't fit into the Doviello I have in my mind...

And I Mahala as more Charismatic than Charadon, Tas, but I guess that could work if Mahala got Organized instead.

I tried to emphasize the Feral aspect of the Doviello, without resorting to ritualized hunts (As honestly, I'd have had to include hunts against sapient units; I don't think the Doviello would make a distinction between Deer and Elohim, both are weak.), Druidic themes (Doesn't fit them as a whole IMO, though it could work for a leader), or too much Lycanthropy. That is exclusive to just the one leader in my version, and even then is a small thing (Guaranteed access to Duin, basically, same reqs/cost).

 

[Valkrionn]

In my version I just added the ability for the Doviello melee UUs to steal weapons promotions and also send food or production to a nearby city with each kill (food if the victim is an animal, production otherwise).

Thief. Though I like my version better... Some of it isn't possible without FF"s code, though.

Scavenger promotion - Gained after successful combat with a living enemy.

• Promotion expires in 5 turns.
• Unit costs no maintenance.
• Does not cause War Weariness.
• Does not cost military support.
• Can sacrifice to provide 10 to a city.
• Heals an extra 5%/5%/5% in Friendly/Neutral/Enemy territory.

Looting - Any unit with the Doviello version of the 'Winterborn' racial promotion is now able to steal weapons from defeated enemies. At the moment, this includes:

• Bronze/Iron/Mithril Weapons
• Enchanted Blade

 

[Onionsoilder]

Mahala as Charismatic? No, not really. Her people have idolized Charadon for centuries, enough to bring him back from the dead for a chance to follow the legend again. Mahala isn't even that popular. Her only real fan is Lucien, who happens to be the best greatest Doviello since Charadon and is almost as charismatic, much smarter, and completely loyal to Mahala.


In my version I just added the ability for the Doviello melee UUs to steal weapons promotions and also send food or production to a nearby city with each kill (food if the victim is an animal, production otherwise).

I guess I mistook Lucien's loyalty to her as being charismatic. If not that or organized, What would you suggest then?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Thief. Though I like my version better... Some of it isn't possible without FF"s code, though.

I'm not stealing from you, but from myself. If anything you stole from me. You merely reminded me of some suggestions I made a long time ago, before any of those FF mechanisms were added. I'd included parts of it in the past but forgotten to include them in recent versions of my modmod, and had to go with a limited form based on the UUs since 'm not using the FF DLL.

 

[Valkrionn]

No, only thing I've stolen from you is the Citadel of Light. I just thought weapon stealing/no maintenance while actively fighting would be a good mechanic for them.

 

[Tasunke]

Well, I certainly think that the Battlemaster's "nerf" should be removed. I mean, talking about Battlemasters being "cheaper" than normal champions is preposterous.

its assuming that both Doviello leaders have Ingenuity, and that no other leader has Ingenuity, which simply is not true. If anything, a Doviello Beastmaster under CHaradon is MUCH more expensive than a Khazad Champion.

And, both being melee-centric civs, the Khazad have the CLEAR advantage.

Therefore, give them back the 25% vs melee .... and any extra strength you give them, make it whatever you like, whether its 25% tundra or 50% tundra, or no tundra, won't really matter. I mean, clearly they dont *like* tundra, so why should they be strong in it?? I say let them keep the 50% tundra strength and add the 25% melee at facevalue, but hey, clearly the Doviello are less underpowered than they seem.

 

[Senethro]

They are less underpowered than they seem!

 

[Onionsoilder]

I agree. Everyone is blowing this whole thing out of proportion. It's the Calabim that really need a boost... I mean, the loss of maintenance reduction on their governor's manors hurts them so much.

 

[Senethro]

No, really, the Doviello are not too underpowered because they're good at whats important. Like the base game Civilization, the game is about gearing your economy to spit out an army and engaging in fast, efficient conquest. FFH even exaggerates this because of the longer tech times and relatively cheaper units.

OnionSoildier, I think it was you. Do you not remember an MP game where you were OO Lanun, I was Mahala Doviello. You'd declared war on me early along with the Orcs and the Malakim in an attempt to put me down early. Unfortunately for you I managed to steal the Orc's copper 1 turn before he could use it, made peace with you and crushed my other two opponents.

Then came the interesting bit. Do you not remember the 3 hasted Axemen stacks rushing around your territory? The ones that went right past your frontlines and attacked en masse on any city with insufficient defenders? I picked off a bunch of small outlying cities, took a border city and razed two core cities including the OO shrine. Saverous and your Stygs never seemed to be able to catch the stacks and inflict a decisive defeat on them despite being stronger.

Thats what Mahala's Doviello are very good at. Inflicting strategic damage and never allowing a battle they might lose. Her cheap axemen, early access to combat Adepts and Raiders trait make for a very strong early-midgame conquest.

 

[Tasunke]

Try to do the same thing with Charadon.

 

[Tasunke]

double post

 

[Valkrionn]

Even if the Doviello don't outright suck, their flavor is very undeveloped... That was the main reason I started Doviello+, not that it was a weak civ.

 

[Senethro]

Have you read the flavor text for the Doviello Tier 4 units? I like Dentaro's voice.

Gonna resurrect my idea from the last Doviello thread. Seeing as how Doviello don't have a hero because they're never going to research machinery, Lucian should get a bigger role. Instead of being a unit he could be a respawning Great Commander like Decius is in the scenarios. He gives a unit +1 Str, causes them to gain XP faster, he'll lead the charge into every difficult battle and even if he loses, he'll regroup at the capital to have another go.

 

[Tasunke]

Senethro, I approve of this idea. Lucian should be an immortal great commander xD

quite seriously, it would give the Doviello something special ... unique from the other civs, without having to be overly "overpowered" or somesuch.

A small addition of giving tundra for the Doviello +1 hammer could also be helpful.



On another note, I still don't see why Battlemasters have an extra 50% strength in the tundra. Other than flavor that never sees the light of day.

 

[DaveGold]

No, really, the Doviello are not too underpowered because they're good at whats important. Like the base game Civilization, the game is about gearing your economy to spit out an army and engaging in fast, efficient conquest.

This is why I think the Doviello are underpowered. They're the worst economic nation and that's really important. Even the stupid orcs do better. This means they can't gear their economy for fast efficient conquest or anything else. If the Doviello had free maintenance for more units from their palace then that would certainly help.