the Dreamer

[zxcvbnm]

I've been thinking of a dreamer promotion which could make Hemah more ffh-realistic but still powerful. In the civilopedia entry it's said that he is dangerous because of his dreams and he's not actually a mage of any kind, so a loki-like unit which would wreak havoc to others without war would be quite fun and close to the original.

The dreamer could have either hidden nationality or ability to explore enemy lands, and would randomly cast a spell which can hurt any player. Hemah could have sorcery, summoning and twincast and the summoned units would be barbarian or hidden nationality but uncontrollable and unable to attack him. The chance of this could be 50% like with lunatics so he can be either awake and controllable or asleep and more powerful.

Spoiler :

Since then, everyone who has gotten close to Hemah has died, not that those who don't know him do much better. One morning, he awoke to find the entire population of the small village he was passing through was simply gone. Sometimes creatures are created that live well after he awakes. People are killed, women are raped. Men are made into puppets for the night, forced to play out scenes from Hemah's subconscious over and over again.

Some say Hemah isn't a mage, he only dreamt he was once and he hasn't forgotten the dream. Others wonder if the Overlords found Hemah and caused his dreams, or if Hemah dreamt of the Overlords and created them. What is known is that as dangerous as Hemah is awake, he is even more dangerous asleep

 

[seZereth]

that spoiler is the most amazing part of any pedia entry. it hooked me from the first reading.

not sure about the promotion though.

 

[xienwolf]

It could be intriguing to have Hemah set to be Loki style with a chance to conjure a barbarian horde when in a city at the start of any turn. But I don't think it would be easy to code him to be immune to his own Barbarian Summons, so probably just make him an automatic retreat unit like Loki is. Then you can park him in a town and leave him there until the barbarians take it over, and move on to the next town to heal and do the same.

Might need him to summon better units than your typical barbarian of course, since by the time you can make Hemah, a swarm of strength 2-4 units would only make a city defender laugh.

 

[White Elk]

I like this idea very much. I too had been intrigued by Hemahs story,
and think it would be fun for his dreams to make it into the game.

 

[zxcvbnm]

It could be intriguing to have Hemah set to be Loki style with a chance to conjure a barbarian horde when in a city at the start of any turn. But I don't think it would be easy to code him to be immune to his own Barbarian Summons, so probably just make him an automatic retreat unit like Loki is. Then you can park him in a town and leave him there until the barbarians take it over, and move on to the next town to heal and do the same.

Might need him to summon better units than your typical barbarian of course, since by the time you can make Hemah, a swarm of strength 2-4 units would only make a city defender laugh.

Certainly not just barbarians but "dream" summons like these in Kithra Kyriel's story:

Spoiler :

That night the orcs attacked again, but strange dark versions of orcs. Some ran through the walls of buildings like ghosts, other fought battles in the streets with guards who had been killed earlier that day. Yells and the sounds of battle echoed in the air, as if it was nothing more than a vision, but this was real.

More powerful than ordinary, perhaps hordes of normal summons like chaos marauders, depending on Hemah's promotions, ie with fire III he would have a chance of dreaming fire elementals and with entropy II it would be imps. Of course combat I-V would give them empower I-V. Also certain promotions could increase the dreams' number.

And he would summon them with 50% chance even outside cities

 

[hossam]

how about that there is a 50 percent chance whenever he is in an enemy city that they will lose 1 population point or a building will be destroyed

 

[White Elk]

Does Hemah ever have good dreams? I think it would be both interesting and balanced for there to also be a chance that Hemahs dreams would give benefits to the city hes traveling through. Something to balance out the obvious negative effects, and make it so that using Hemah against other civs comes with some risk.

Hemahs dreams could have both good or bad effects on cities, terrain, and units. They could cause spell effects like Inspiration, Hope and Unyielding Order. And could cause events like a population or economic boom, civil unrest, plague, Tsunami, fires etc. Buildings could be randomly created or destroyed. Terrain could change for good or bad, and resources could be gained or lost. He could cause an Arena event to occur or a Hero to emerge. Random units could be Cursed, Crazed, Enervated etc. Or they could gain Courage, Morale, Regeneration etc.

With Hemahs dreams there could first be the chance that he will dream. If he dreams then 'roll' to see if its a good or bad event (perhaps a civs alignment could effect these odds?). Then a roll to see if a unit, building, terrain or city will be affected. And finally the roll for the actual event.

Elemental summons could be limited by the mana types that the civ has. And instead of only summoning demons and such, perhaps one the possibilities could be that some of a cities units be given the Burning Blood and Barbarian promotions. This would simulate the townsfolk.. "forced to play out scenes from Hemah's subconscious".

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

but i dont see hemah as ever having good dreams....

 

[hossam]

Does Hemah ever have good dreams? I think it would be both interesting and balanced for there to also be a chance that Hemahs dreams would give benefits to the city hes traveling through. Something to balance out the obvious negative effects, and make it so that using Hemah against other civs comes with some risk.

Hemahs dreams could have both good or bad effects on cities, terrain, and units. They could cause spell effects like Inspiration, Hope and Unyielding Order. And could cause events like a population or economic boom, civil unrest, plague, Tsunami, fires etc. Buildings could be randomly created or destroyed. Terrain could change for good or bad, and resources could be gained or lost. He could cause an Arena event to occur or a Hero to emerge. Random units could be Cursed, Crazed, Enervated etc. Or they could gain Courage, Morale, Regeneration etc.

With Hemahs dreams there could first be the chance that he will dream. If he dreams then 'roll' to see if its a good or bad event (perhaps a civs alignment could effect these odds?). Then a roll to see if a unit, building, terrain or city will be affected. And finally the roll for the actual event.

Elemental summons could be limited by the mana types that the civ has. And instead of only summoning demons and such, perhaps one the possibilities could be that some of a cities units be given the Burning Blood and Barbarian promotions. This would simulate the townsfolk.. "forced to play out scenes from Hemah's subconscious".

well the civilopedia says that every body hes come into contact with has died so unless they died of hapiness i doubt he has any good dreams

 

[zxcvbnm]

"What is known is that as dangerous as Hemah is awake, he is even more dangerous asleep"

How good dreams can be dangerous?

Actually Hemah can be beneficial as his dreams can make certain people heroes but the benefits are always minimal when compared to the cost.

Spoiler :

The soldier from the inn commanded Kithra to get his horse ready and grabbed his sword to keep the orcs back. By the time Kithra had saddled the horse, the soldier was already dead and the orcs were breaking into the inn.

Kithra saw himself ride through the orcs, bow in hand, firing deadly arrow after arrow into the orc horde. He heard the orcs dying before he remembered ever performing the act. He was confused and then he was on the horse, but the horse had changed, it was stronger and faster than it was that day. The tail was untied and combed out, hooves were polished, and it was fearless. The horse charged through the orcs, trampling any that got in his way. Kithra was terrified, silent witness to his own hands as they used the bow and arrows he had never seen before to fight off the orcs.

--

He aimed at the orc, and his arrow caught him in the chest. A second quickly followed and a third sunk into the orc's head. No longer a puppet, Kithra still had no idea what was going on, but there were many more orcs to kill. He told his mother to hide by the well while he then turned back towards the orcs; there was more fighting to be done before morning.

Kithra still doesn't know what happened that night. The orcs' bodies simply disappeared, but the effects of their presence didn't. Some of the villagers were killed, as was the soldier who owned the horse. Evidence of the attack was everywhere, broken doors, tracks, the orcs had even eaten some of the livestock. But the orcs themselves, along with their weapons and gear, were gone.

Kithra's bow remained and the horse kept the changes that had occurred during the night. Kithra had changed too, his sandy blond hair was now golden blond, his eyes were greener, he seemed taller and more fit. Thinking that his elven heritage may have done this to him, he left the village and traveled to his father's former home where he asked for advice from the priest of the Temple of Leaves.

They weren't able to answer his questions about that night, but they did tell him that he was a hero now, and had an amazing gift bestowed upon him.

Such event could actually be KK's entry to a FoL civ as a hero


If Hemah's dreams are random spells it would be logical that players can choose certain spheres like for other mages. So you can give him inspiration but he's no longer a valid weapon if he's got only beneficial spells, like what's the idea of dreaming a lifespark to attack an enemy city

Of course you don't want him walking around in your cities so making him go to someone else's territory would relieve you of his nightmares but should cause a diplomatic penalty.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

thats an interesting exerpt... perhaps hemah could have a 'heroic dream' that is randomly bestowed to one unit during the game (maybe a 1% chance when he comes in contact with anay unit, friend or foe?) this give the unit the hero promotion?

 

[Calavente]

or maybe Hemahs stays just as it is with a "dream spell" appearing with 1/10 chance ?? hemahs friends are helping him not sleeping so he dreams not so much ... but ... you only need 1 time...
dream spell is random or all of following :
-summoning units from the mana levels he has, but in the divine or summoning class, unit are barb, summoned, mobility2 and do not attack Hemah's spot, (even if city)
-kills 1 to 3 pop if in city,
-flood / scorch the terrain he is on, pillage the square...etc)


when hemah dreams while traveling on another civ territory (not at war) you get a -1 modifier "you let hemah free in our territory" and it cancels open borders.

 

[White Elk]

Perhaps a civs alignment shouldn't factor into the odds for a 'good vs bad' event. But when I was thinking of good and bad events I wasn't thinking of 'right and wrong' in the morale sense. I should have spoken of beneficial dreams rather than 'good' dreams. And instead of calling them good or bad effects, called them negative or positive. Evil acts can have positive effects. And the ideals of good and bad are not easily defined.

Like say Hemah dreams evil such as mass rape. It is an evil wicked act. But it could have the effect of raising the cities population. Or say he dreams of some creatively sick method of murder which then imbues his 'puppet' with wisdom (Inspiration spell). Or he dreams of a viscous murder which leaves his puppet feeling particularly powerful (Courage promotion). Maybe he dreams of a great earthquake which wreaks death and destruction, but when the dust settles a Gold vein is discovered in the hills. etc etc

And I don't see why Hemah would only dream of wickedness and destruction. His soul might be dark and his mind fouled, but why wouldn't he dream of other things? And I'm not talking puppydogs and pollywogs. Like say he dreams of a barn raising which he saw as a child. The next morning the townsfolk awake to blistered and bloody hands and find a new building in town. Or a new field of corn etc

I think if Hemahs dreams are to incorporated into the game as the OP suggests (which I think is a fine idea), then the dreaming should be balanced somewhat. I think there must be some odds for beneficial things to happen. Otherwise the use of Hemah would be so obvious that it would become boring.... move Hemah into city, wreak havoc move on. The use of Hemahs dreams would become a boring no-brainer.

I also think that Hemahs dreams should affect his civs cities as well. It would seem odd if Hemahs civ was somehow immune to them. So I think Hemahs dreams would be made more interesting by balancing them with beneficial events, and allowing them to affect his own civ... Hemahs owner might just want to roll the dice a little and have him travel through the townships. Or (s)he might want to play it safe and stick him on some hilltop fort away from the populace where his dreams would do less damage but would do no good. Or maybe Hemahs owner would send him to a civs border towns hoping that hordes of dreambeasts will destroy them... Or send him to their capital in the hopes that the people will turn against each other and destroy themselves from within.. Knowing full well that this may backfire and the people may instead be made stronger, not weaker.

Hemah cannot control his dreams, and we shouldn't be able to either.
Which is what we would be doing if Hemahs dreams wrought only death and destruction.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

ok, now im converted you know how to pursuade people dont you White Elk? perhaps there should be a message acompaning each dream effect (Like your one about a massve earthquake desroying a city but uncovering gold) so players can get the jist that its not all happy effects

 

[White Elk]

Definitely. The event messages for Hemahs dreams would add extra flavor to the game.

And for an event like the earthquake revealing a resource.. perhaps it should come with some population loss?

 

[zxcvbnm]

I think if Hemahs dreams are to incorporated into the game as the OP suggests (which I think is a fine idea), then the dreaming should be balanced somewhat. I think there must be some odds for beneficial things to happen. Otherwise the use of Hemah would be so obvious that it would become boring.... move Hemah into city, wreak havoc move on. The use of Hemahs dreams would become a boring no-brainer.

I also think that Hemahs dreams should affect his civs cities as well. It would seem odd if Hemahs civ was somehow immune to them. So I think Hemahs dreams would be made more interesting by balancing them with beneficial events, and allowing them to affect his own civ... Hemahs owner might just want to roll the dice a little and have him travel through the townships. Or (s)he might want to play it safe and stick him on some hilltop fort away from the populace where his dreams would do less damage but would do no good. Or maybe Hemahs owner would send him to a civs border towns hoping that hordes of dreambeasts will destroy them... Or send him to their capital in the hopes that the people will turn against each other and destroy themselves from within.. Knowing full well that this may backfire and the people may instead be made stronger, not weaker.

Obviously his dreams should affect everybody, as it's said in the civilopedia, no exceptions based on nationality.
Something that would make the game a bit more interesting...

 

[White Elk]

And for promotion events like the granting of Courage, Hero, Poisoned etc... they could come with a cost as well. Say Hemah dreams of murder. Two units are randomly selected and then 'fight'. Loser dies and winner gets the promotion. Maybe this would work using the Arena concept.

Perhaps all dream events which have a beneficial effect should also have a detrimental effect?
Some less than others.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

yeh, good needs to be balanced with bad, but bad not balanced with good

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't think that there is any need of a dreamer promotion, but I would love having a large number of possible "dream" random events which owning him would trigger.

 

[zxcvbnm]

The dreamer promotion is not necessary but then it would be good if it was an ability. Noobs need to know what they are building so the 'pedia entry should then have "can explore enemy lands, can dream" and dreams ability should be listed in game concepts