Ecofarm
Deity
Room to make 7 cities and founding every religion, on immortal... that's nutz.
The Ecofarm Challenge
- Thread starter Ecofarm
- Start date
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
Hmm, maybe this'd be more fun if we choose a civ/map setup, and then have one person post the Initial Save?
Then we'd be playing on the same map, and could actually compare notes.
Too bad you make the civ you are playing dynamic.
Then we'd be playing on the same map, and could actually compare notes.
Too bad you make the civ you are playing dynamic.
Ecofarm
Deity
I see what you mean, but we can look at the saves and see how different starts allow different things. More learning this way, if less comparability.
Ecofarm
Deity
Lanun with FoL (if ancients available), Guardian or OO Tower (happy), coves and unlimited sages (arcane lore) does nicely. Unless Lanun gets a 7+ (out of 10) start, yea, coast sucks.
Here is mine Lurchuip challenge.
Play now, _normal_ speed (I don't like quick much), immortal, Beeri.
At start I moved mine initial settler, since I found a Patria nearby. There was some jungle, but Patria still rulez. Next I warrior spam nearby civ (Sheaim). Having 3 cities I wasnt so backwards. Lanun built Titan wonder in that time which they doomed himselves to be mine next target
. Interestingelly mine friend Kurio help me in war (in fact, I was helping him, hehe). After getting 2 nice cities from Lanun, I play builder style, getting for Engineering and its wonders, iron golems and captured Acheron/Lich city. Domination was close then.
Play now, _normal_ speed (I don't like quick much), immortal, Beeri.
At start I moved mine initial settler, since I found a Patria nearby. There was some jungle, but Patria still rulez. Next I warrior spam nearby civ (Sheaim). Having 3 cities I wasnt so backwards. Lanun built Titan wonder in that time which they doomed himselves to be mine next target
. Interestingelly mine friend Kurio help me in war (in fact, I was helping him, hehe). After getting 2 nice cities from Lanun, I play builder style, getting for Engineering and its wonders, iron golems and captured Acheron/Lich city. Domination was close then.Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
Here is mine Lurchuip challenge.
Play now, _normal_ speed (I don't like quick much), immortal, Beeri.
At start I moved mine initial settler, since I found a Patria nearby. There was some jungle, but Patria still rulez. Next I warrior spam nearby civ (Sheaim). Having 3 cities I wasnt so backwards. Lanun built Titan wonder in that time which they doomed himselves to be mine next target
So I took a look at this game, and I think it's a great example of why 'play now' just gimps the AI.
I used your initial save and replayed this map. Scored a conquest Victory before turn 200, total of just shy of 300,000 points.
Carditha and Osgaballa built nothing other than the basic scout/warriors the entire game, only the lanun had a sprinkle of swordsmen and catapults by the time I took care of them.
I've attached two saves. Turn 59, right before I take Yggdrassil away from the Kurio's, and the final save on turn 191.
A few notes on the game: I cast Gifts of Nantosuelta on the second turn, after building my capital, and immediately changed to pacifism. By turn 50 I had a second city,and my capital was pumping out warriors every turn, sometimes two. (+5 production in capital from first Engineer, and great Engineer spawned turn 26).
I pushed the Kurios back onto their peninsula, and got one high XP warrior, who I used to do the same to the Sheiam. Took city after city from those two for a bit, then switched over to the Lanun with a large force of Wood Golems, Barnaxus (Level 2) and a 100 XP warrior with shock 2 and March.
Research order was roughly:
Agriculture, Ancient CHants, Education
Masonry, Construction
Exploration, Hunting, Mysticism, Fellowship of the Leaves
Animal Husbandry, Calender, Mining
Hidden Paths
From there it matters less, but that was the gist of it.
I loaded a few times when I lost greater than 95% combats with Barnie or Doomie, for a total of 3 times in the early game. I also got frustrated trying to take the last Sheiam city and did some really stupid attacks, that I reloaded from for two other loads around turn 180.
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
Why didn't you have a state religion? That seems weird for that late in the game. Was that one turn of anarchy so terrifying? Or did you just want to keep the culture bonus' from all the various religions?
Turinturambar
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2005
- Messages
- 368
Weird. I could have sworn I had changed to runes of kilmorph sometime before, but apparently I went through the whole game without a state religion.
There are actually quite a few benefits to having no religion (most notably easier diplomacy and more culture), but it really was just an oversight.
Especially since I could have changed at no cost due to the golden age.
There are actually quite a few benefits to having no religion (most notably easier diplomacy and more culture), but it really was just an oversight.
Especially since I could have changed at no cost due to the golden age.
Ecofarm
Deity
Svalt
Hippus
Elohim
Bannor
Khazad
Khazad
Luchuirp
Here is mine Lurchuip challenge.
Play now, _normal_ speed (I don't like quick much), immortal, Beeri.
At start I moved mine initial settler, since I found a Patria nearby. There was some jungle, but Patria still rulez. Next I warrior spam nearby civ (Sheaim). Having 3 cities I wasnt so backwards. Lanun built Titan wonder in that time which they doomed himselves to be mine next target
Luchiurp
Luchuirp
-----
Svalt, Hippus, Elohim, Bannor, Khazad x2, Luchuirp x3 (and a last minute Sidar deity incomplete)
Did your favorite civ make it in time? Tomorrow is .32!
EDIT: Corrected to Elohim.
westamastaflash
Lord Commander
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2007
- Messages
- 933
Oh I was Elohim, not Lanun ;-)
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
Played a little of Ecofarms Svart game. Gotta love the military might of Chalid + Alazkan. Thought it was odd that Chalid's only upgrades were Mobility 1 and Command 1. I mean, I know you just built him, but why those two in particular? I'd think that Law II and Law III would be drastically more effective. More XP and another body. Upgrade the Hosts with Mobility if they win their first fight, so they can keep attacking. Rely more on the crown damage, then on the Pillar of fire. That's my general approach anyway. Heck just getting to cast Valor before the first actual attack is pretty useful.
Oh, other question: Why was Alazkan's Nationality Revealed? Did you accidentally reveal via that Empyrean spell? Just seems normally it's great for getting in some extra XP while your full on military builds up.
Oh, other question: Why was Alazkan's Nationality Revealed? Did you accidentally reveal via that Empyrean spell? Just seems normally it's great for getting in some extra XP while your full on military builds up.
giddion
Crusader
mmmm That is qwik... I thought I would try it out, not using your saves. My first war was a bit later about turn 72 against elves, I think I went for the horses a little late, my initial city placement had fur and deer, tis hard to resist using em.
I think I also used the warcry too early, I should have weighted until a couple of turns into my war, I think. The elves had sliverin hero, lost some horses to that.
You only have 2 workers and very spread out cities.
EDIT: A very good start with 3 cow and 1 horse in cross of main city. Did you keep starting new map until a good start appeared?
I wasn't able to finish off the elves, couldn't find the last city, so made peace. In new war with bannor now, horses are having some trouble.
I may have kept too many cities too early, my tech tree is also behind my opponants and they ar starting to have defenses that I am struggling against.
I am currently at turn 104 and still 6 enemies, and to make it worse Hyperion has entered the game.
A short tech & build blurb for early game would be great, because that is astonishingly fast.
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
I'm guessing he didn't. Great Plains map type has those pretty often in the center of it. (Cows that is). In fact, given the research path of the Hippus, I'd say the only thing stacked in his favor was the map type in general
.
Sureshot
Goddess
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2006
- Messages
- 3,771
lets see now, my memory isnt great but ill see if i can remember how i started.
firstly, that was my first map generation, the first thing i did was start building a worker while researching animal husbandry. when the worker was made i started making farms since i wasnt quite done AH.
once i had AH i made pastures, think my scout was out looking for nearby cities for me to take later. then i started researching horseback riding, while i was waiting for that i build another warrior and then a settler, then maybe a worker.
then i got HBR and build a stables while researching Ancient Chants then Education, while my first city pumped out horsemen for the rest of the game. my second city built a worker maybe, and a stables, but couldnt make horsemen cause it wasnt connected and had no horse resource of its own, i may have made another warior and worker there.
once i had education i switched apprenticeship, and i made cottages on all the plains tiles and started researching exploration for roads, i think my horsemen were piled around khazad whod just founded Runes around this time, horsemen were training on barbarians and finding the quickest side to attack khazads capital from. i started researching towards runes tech
then i took over their capital the turn i declared war, and took over their second city (runes HC) either the same turn or the turn after. orthus was just south and i killed him too and got the axe on my best unit.
i then took over a few balseraph cities with the horsemen who were mostly unhurt and left over from killing khazad, mainly relying on my orthus axe horseman. i think i switched to city states around this time, not sure when i switched to runes. after some healing and possibly some reinforcements i took over the remaining balseraph cities and a barb city. at this point i had horsemen all over the place and was beginning to connect my cities up visually and road wise, making it easier to control the area and move my horsemen around.
i then attacked sheaim with a force of new horsemen id built (by this time my second and only other self-built city had started pumping out horsemen as well, and maybe the khazad cities) and took out several cities quickly, tending to keep good cities and raze crappy ones, before i finished them off doviello declared on me and had a big stack near my khazad cities, but i got the army that killed the balseraphs with a few new recruits to make short work of them and becoming taking the doviello cities.
i finished off the sheaim and doviello around the same time with my two main armies, and then had them rush the illians and took this out rather quickly and easily.
the end heh
edit: tired, my english is sucking heh
Blackmantle
King
Here you find my try on your Challenge. Couldnt finish due to time (the game also went crawlingly slow the last turns. About a Minute of load-time between turns) and 0.32.
Specs are: play now, Deity, standart size, Creation Mapscript, Sidar, quick.
But perhaps you can still draw something from it. The first save is directly before the War with Falamar.
The second one is where i left the game (my section of the Map is under my control).
It should be possible to achieve a ToM Victory from there without Danger as well as a very long Term military one by adopting CoE (shading Chalid before to be able to keep his Spells.) and backstabbing the opposition onw by one. (all are in overcouncil so no wars on their behalf to be expected.) Perhaps casting into the Mist with a bunch of HN-Scouts turned Horseman so you can wreck their economy first with impunity and get a whole load of Gold in the process. Chavalry in the Capital is built in 1 Turn each and starts with 22 Exp so with one Valor buffed combat should be able to shade (take enraged Lunatics let loose as oponents if Barbs are scarce).
So allowing up to a shade a turn which should make building ToM even easier than it allready is (or win a Culture-Victory long term if you really are determined to do it.).
Had to restart from initial a few times hope thats not to much of a problem (deity only allows for flawless play sadly. And my builder nature broke free a few times. Always used the same basic Plan for the Game and positon of my capital though.) and doesnt fall under the no reload rule. The Huts have been worse in that game than on first try (got Mysticism there on turn 5. Sad to had to scrap that one.) though so no real advantage from it gamewise. And the position doesn't allow to take any advantage of it due to early isolation and didn't ever saw alot of the map until the game that produced above saves (if someone is interested, try inital and you'll see why.).
I did one Reload of an Autosave Midgame where 4 fortified Level 4-5 Axemen with Bronze + enchanted Weapons in Forsest got killed by a bunch of Fresh Warriors and Hunters (only one Promotion each)
. Which must have been 4 Battles of 99% or above in a row (they came with a force about twice as big but they won their first battles with only losing one Unit.). Whould have won the War anyways though, albeit a bit later (should have perhaps let this go since it was a bit of a tactical mistake on my behalf but got frustrated with a lot of 85% or above losses and that just pushed me over the top. Lost a few "Shades" in 95% and up battles later "to compensate" 
)
No other reloads. Also as handicap i later got no ecclastic on honor (don't know why. Is that normal?) which was quite hit to my strategy. Only recently got Empyrean spreading to my lands so i chould start cranking out Rathas.
Now though i know why you think sidar are not that strong.
In quick they are only about half as powerful and you get the important first few shades much later in comparison (i now have seen another time why i hate quick. Military hackfest without respite or fun. Nothing for a builder / micromanager like me. Won't play at that speed again if i can evade it in any way).
At Normal speed (and thats what the game is balanced for by the team after all) they are outstanding (you can produce about twice the ammount of units / shades there after all. More on slower speeds.). On Epic they are utterly imbalanced and allow to dominate immortal / deity as if it were prince. But Epic is crawlingly slow in FFH 2 anyways and the Sidar don't need the push.
Hope it helps you even if i didn't get to finish it (also wasn't fun so another reason not to finish.)
Now off to playing 0.32.
Specs are: play now, Deity, standart size, Creation Mapscript, Sidar, quick.
But perhaps you can still draw something from it. The first save is directly before the War with Falamar.
The second one is where i left the game (my section of the Map is under my control).
It should be possible to achieve a ToM Victory from there without Danger as well as a very long Term military one by adopting CoE (shading Chalid before to be able to keep his Spells.) and backstabbing the opposition onw by one. (all are in overcouncil so no wars on their behalf to be expected.) Perhaps casting into the Mist with a bunch of HN-Scouts turned Horseman so you can wreck their economy first with impunity and get a whole load of Gold in the process. Chavalry in the Capital is built in 1 Turn each and starts with 22 Exp so with one Valor buffed combat should be able to shade (take enraged Lunatics let loose as oponents if Barbs are scarce).
So allowing up to a shade a turn which should make building ToM even easier than it allready is (or win a Culture-Victory long term if you really are determined to do it.).
Had to restart from initial a few times hope thats not to much of a problem (deity only allows for flawless play sadly. And my builder nature broke free a few times. Always used the same basic Plan for the Game and positon of my capital though.) and doesnt fall under the no reload rule. The Huts have been worse in that game than on first try (got Mysticism there on turn 5. Sad to had to scrap that one.) though so no real advantage from it gamewise. And the position doesn't allow to take any advantage of it due to early isolation and didn't ever saw alot of the map until the game that produced above saves (if someone is interested, try inital and you'll see why.).
I did one Reload of an Autosave Midgame where 4 fortified Level 4-5 Axemen with Bronze + enchanted Weapons in Forsest got killed by a bunch of Fresh Warriors and Hunters (only one Promotion each)
. Which must have been 4 Battles of 99% or above in a row (they came with a force about twice as big but they won their first battles with only losing one Unit.). Whould have won the War anyways though, albeit a bit later (should have perhaps let this go since it was a bit of a tactical mistake on my behalf but got frustrated with a lot of 85% or above losses and that just pushed me over the top. Lost a few "Shades" in 95% and up battles later "to compensate" )No other reloads. Also as handicap i later got no ecclastic on honor (don't know why. Is that normal?) which was quite hit to my strategy. Only recently got Empyrean spreading to my lands so i chould start cranking out Rathas.
Now though i know why you think sidar are not that strong.
In quick they are only about half as powerful and you get the important first few shades much later in comparison (i now have seen another time why i hate quick. Military hackfest without respite or fun. Nothing for a builder / micromanager like me. Won't play at that speed again if i can evade it in any way).
At Normal speed (and thats what the game is balanced for by the team after all) they are outstanding (you can produce about twice the ammount of units / shades there after all. More on slower speeds.). On Epic they are utterly imbalanced and allow to dominate immortal / deity as if it were prince. But Epic is crawlingly slow in FFH 2 anyways and the Sidar don't need the push.
Hope it helps you even if i didn't get to finish it (also wasn't fun so another reason not to finish.)
Now off to playing 0.32.
giddion
Crusader
I thought I would try the sureshot approach so I started a new game, this time with a much better start, lots of cows and wheat etc, I guess when i started the last one it was just a bit of bad luck getting lots of mountain and trees.
I changed my strategy a bit and realise now that I made many mistakes that cost me a lot of time completeing. (waiting to heal and pausing the steady flow of horse production by build some other useless crap.)
So anyway... I did reload a couple of times... The first was because I never saw the barbarian fire elemental standing next to me (no graphic art), so I healed when i should have moved.
And second was due to accidental movement of troops out of city leaving it unguarded.
I couldn't get the turn 60 battle like sureshot, I had malikin declare on me around 68-70, I was preparing to attack the clan, so that changed my advance, and I had to march all the way across the other side of the map.
Finish turn 117 conquest...
I finished only after killing lunan, taking orthus' axe was his final remaining unit... funny...
I learnt a lot, haven't read sureshots reply yet will after posting... Thanks
I changed my strategy a bit and realise now that I made many mistakes that cost me a lot of time completeing. (waiting to heal and pausing the steady flow of horse production by build some other useless crap.)
So anyway... I did reload a couple of times... The first was because I never saw the barbarian fire elemental standing next to me (no graphic art), so I healed when i should have moved.
And second was due to accidental movement of troops out of city leaving it unguarded.
I couldn't get the turn 60 battle like sureshot, I had malikin declare on me around 68-70, I was preparing to attack the clan, so that changed my advance, and I had to march all the way across the other side of the map.
Finish turn 117 conquest...
I finished only after killing lunan, taking orthus' axe was his final remaining unit... funny...
I learnt a lot, haven't read sureshots reply yet will after posting... Thanks
giddion
Crusader
thanks for the response sureshot, at what point did you use the warcry?
Also, building the worker first, isn't this dangerous? I always build 2 warriors first and wait until a city size of 3.
That said I also play custom maps with all the extra barbs and aggression etc... also with many extra civs
Also, building the worker first, isn't this dangerous? I always build 2 warriors first and wait until a city size of 3.
That said I also play custom maps with all the extra barbs and aggression etc... also with many extra civs
Sureshot
Goddess
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2006
- Messages
- 3,771
i was playing to the settings, and on Play Now! theres no raging barbs so minimal threat early on.
i think i used warcry while finishing off sheaim and doviello, since doviello had javellins i wanted a little boost, plus the end was near so i figured i should use it. i considered using it earlier, but didnt have have much need of it so waited for a time when the extra movement or strength would help take a city earlier than i would have without it
i think i used warcry while finishing off sheaim and doviello, since doviello had javellins i wanted a little boost, plus the end was near so i figured i should use it. i considered using it earlier, but didnt have have much need of it so waited for a time when the extra movement or strength would help take a city earlier than i would have without it
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
Barbarians wont' attack cities until turn 100.
I don't play with aggressive AI on, but the AI pretty much leaves you alone for the first 20 turns I've seen.
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