Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
This is a thread inspired by some of the recent discussions in the "US Marines in Afghanistan" thread, which moved onto peoples attitudes towards, experiences of, and beliefs about education, particularly the tertiary variety, what is known to US barbarians as "college"
.
So here, I would like to initiate some discussion on the matter, teasing out some more of the notions raised by both sides. The main area of difference that was beginning to come out was disagreement over paying for college, among other associated notions.
In the antipodies, where I make my residence, upfront payment is not a factor for the vast majority, as tuition fees are deferred until completion of the degree, indeed until a certain income level is reached. Once this occurs, they start taking amounts out of your pay in order to pay off the debt. The system is known as HECS, or Higher Education Contribution Scheme.
It was instituted in the 1980s; prior to this, university was free (I may be wrong about some of the occurences prior to the late 1960s, but it was free in the very early 1970s. Anyway, I digress) The irony of this system is that the right wing ideologues/politicians who are currently savaging the universities, and boosting HECS, are those who had the benefit of a free education in the 1970s.
This system only covers tuition; residency costs extra, but is not a major factor at the universities, at least the one I attend, with only a few hundred living in the colleges out of about 15000 students. Text books and books of photocopied readings are also up to the individual to pay for, although there are moves afoot to challenge this. Added to this are a host of incidental fees and expenses, outside of the cost of normal living.
The end result is that even with HECS deferment, the general populace of the university can be characterised as the private school mob. There are of course many not from the old institutions, from the state system, but they are not in proportion to the rest of society. There are also many overseas fee paying students, which is great for the bank book of the university, but does take places away.
Now, I know I can't really talk, being an old boy of the establishment, but there is an imbalance there that no one is inclined to address, and it is this that helps perpetuate class barriers. There are simply some jobs that would laugh at a secondary school diploma, instead of at least an Honours degree. There are some scholarships, but they are generally into highly vocational/corporatised areas, such as Shell sponsoring a school of petroleum engineering, or something to that effect.
This may not be a new situation to our American friends, but it is just emerging down here. But, this doesn't really effect me personally.
I went through schools on scholarships from Year 4, and have qualifications and a job that Hecs does not matter. So why do I care?
Because everyone deserves to have the same opportunities, or at least a shot at them. That ain't happening under the present model, and it ain't due to laziness on behalf of the individual.
So, this is part 1 of my musings. I'll see if there is any response.
If there is not, then I will have to execute my hostage, Russell Crowe.
.So here, I would like to initiate some discussion on the matter, teasing out some more of the notions raised by both sides. The main area of difference that was beginning to come out was disagreement over paying for college, among other associated notions.
In the antipodies, where I make my residence, upfront payment is not a factor for the vast majority, as tuition fees are deferred until completion of the degree, indeed until a certain income level is reached. Once this occurs, they start taking amounts out of your pay in order to pay off the debt. The system is known as HECS, or Higher Education Contribution Scheme.
It was instituted in the 1980s; prior to this, university was free (I may be wrong about some of the occurences prior to the late 1960s, but it was free in the very early 1970s. Anyway, I digress) The irony of this system is that the right wing ideologues/politicians who are currently savaging the universities, and boosting HECS, are those who had the benefit of a free education in the 1970s.
This system only covers tuition; residency costs extra, but is not a major factor at the universities, at least the one I attend, with only a few hundred living in the colleges out of about 15000 students. Text books and books of photocopied readings are also up to the individual to pay for, although there are moves afoot to challenge this. Added to this are a host of incidental fees and expenses, outside of the cost of normal living.
The end result is that even with HECS deferment, the general populace of the university can be characterised as the private school mob. There are of course many not from the old institutions, from the state system, but they are not in proportion to the rest of society. There are also many overseas fee paying students, which is great for the bank book of the university, but does take places away.
Now, I know I can't really talk, being an old boy of the establishment, but there is an imbalance there that no one is inclined to address, and it is this that helps perpetuate class barriers. There are simply some jobs that would laugh at a secondary school diploma, instead of at least an Honours degree. There are some scholarships, but they are generally into highly vocational/corporatised areas, such as Shell sponsoring a school of petroleum engineering, or something to that effect.
This may not be a new situation to our American friends, but it is just emerging down here. But, this doesn't really effect me personally.
I went through schools on scholarships from Year 4, and have qualifications and a job that Hecs does not matter. So why do I care?
Because everyone deserves to have the same opportunities, or at least a shot at them. That ain't happening under the present model, and it ain't due to laziness on behalf of the individual.
So, this is part 1 of my musings. I'll see if there is any response.
If there is not, then I will have to execute my hostage, Russell Crowe.
(P.S. MAJOR grade inflation there, it's very funny)
) get almost all their costs payed back.In Belgium everybody has the possibilety to study. 
