The Free Spirits

It's about time we pull our heads out of our asses and take some god damn responsibility. Political parties are selfish, immature little creations that only bring those who wish to bicker and destroy. Your fun destroys the fun of others! You want proof of this, then read up inside of the thread! There is already proof of it! Your lies, your slander, it's disgusting! I have done nothing to you untill this point, I even publically gave you my respect. Now, you wish to slander me, for what? What are you afraid of?

Oh.. that's right. Your afraid to stand alone, or are you afraid that you just won't get elected on your personality alone?

My point has been proven, with the mere existance of this debate.

There are 11 threads on the first page of the citizens forum that concerns the game of Civ IV we are playing. Guess how many threads they're are per page? 45... yes... only 11 of 45 threads is actually about the game. You want to take a guess as to why that is?

The focus is no longer about the game, so why do we even have a Democracy Game?

strider, I've been restrained in my postings for various reasons. given your comments, I feel the need to comment about the idiot's partee. It is so named not to make a statement, but to encourage like minded (noobs to demogames) people to have fun. That's why it is a partee and not a party.

I don't have an agenda. My votes have been for people I have history with. really don't care if people don't vote for whomp cause he's bald and half something.

No need to ban political parties completely, just the corruption in them. Slate voting.
Fill me in on the corruption. Telling people I'm voting for Tubs cause he's a geek and way smarter than me is not corruption.

You want proof of this, then read up inside of the thread! There is already proof of it! Your lies, your slander, it's disgusting!
i'll agree with that, I may be guilty of it, but show me where and I'll stop.

To paraphrase you from somewhere else, I don't remember exactly where, this is a game. we've got, what about 60 members?
 
Admiral Kutzov said:
I don't have an agenda. My votes have been for people I have history with. really don't care if people don't vote for whomp cause he's bald and half something.

Exactly my point, your not giving anyone else a chance.

Admiral Kutzov said:
Fill me in on the corruption. Telling people I'm voting for Tubs cause he's a geek and way smarter than me is not corruption.

Since you want to bring up the idoits partee every single time... I'll show you the "corruption":

-----------------------

Swissempire said:
Hey, i looked at you post Tubby and realized that i had voted for evryone on it(except for b) I am being won over by the Call of the Idiocy. Can't resist much longer. You guys are like a magnet, and i;m like a guy with a metal plate in his head and wearing a suit of armor!

Tubby Rower said:
I've voted for all of the ones in the list. if there are any other's please let us know because we don't want to not vote because then we won't have the right to complain if it doesn't turn out our way.

gmaharriet said:
Tubs, thank you for putting up all those links to the votes. I have a heck of a time finding my way around the Demo game sites.

I voted the straight party ticket. Idiots every one of you!!!

fe3333au said:
Have voted ... remember perhaps do not vote for blkbird in designated player as he is not idiot friendly ... we are either leading or equal in polls

Sadan01 said:
Well I'm back from an unexpected absence (due to suffering from blkbird-FLU) and being cut off from the internet for a couple of days - seriously, I was sick but nothing to do with birds or women.
I've placed my votes in for all fellow idiots and it seems, as has been stated before, we seem (and will continue..) to have quite an influence over this Demo Game. Now that is dangerous!

There are similiar instances in the other major parties.

Edit: In an attempt to be equal and fair... I'll wander into the other major parties and find those other instances.
 
The other instances in various parties:

Swissempire said:
ATTENTION ALL IIP MEMBER: nice that got your attention. I urge all meber to get to the polls and vote. We should work to bring or party back to prominance, and restore the golden age. So be active and maybe vote for Gloriana or Me or Blkbird,( sorry if i missed someone)

BlkBird said:
In that case, I hope most of my fellow party members will rather support me, given that my work as the Minister of Science has been compliant to the manifest of our party.

Tubby_Rower said:
This idiot will support a boycott of Blkbird. I'll forward this in the Idiot Partee as well. Blkbird is also running the next turn session offline or non-interactive online. That means that he can do pretty much what he wants without input. That's no way to be a DP in my opinion.

Bengeance said:
Also, as my first act as Humanitus Rector, the OP has decided in a 2 for - 0 against - 1 abstain vote to enforce a boycott on voting for Blkbird for political offices.

Swissempire said:
I'm running for censor, fellow party mates, and being a small party guy( not a meber of either of the current top two!) I need all the support i can get!!

bantste said:
Its good to see so many people are candidates for different government positions. I will vote for all of my fellow team members! I am sad to see that 5_star gave up his gubernotorial run, but I understand why. Good luck to all our candidates!

I_Am_The_Future said:
I would like to have our members do Big Brother a favor. I need you to PM the following message to as many people as possible. I ahve nothing to award this with, So do it as a favor. Big Brother is watching you.

The Party is forever. To ensure that The Party lasts forever it is requested that you vote for I am the Future as Public Defender, RoboPig for Cheif Justice, and Koonrad for Minister of Science. All three candidates offer new ideas to the demogame. They believe in a streatchable law, and a more flexible Goverment. Your vote is expected.

Big Brother is Watching You

The_Condor said:
I voted for all you guys and it was quite fun bumping up my postcount so much and so fast!

I_Am_The_Future said:
TO ALL OUR MEMBERS.

Those of you that have not allready done it please remove yourself from the IIP. Or be removed form the Party. No exceptions will be made.
 
Wow, a nice interesting discussion you have here, must say completely political and in a party thread! On actually about how parties are deleterious to the game. ;) :confused:

Now, to Strider:

I think you are confusing a few things all together. First, you have a strong bindings with the previous demogames. You were used to the way they were run and you just don't see any alternative to that. This might be fortunate because most of the other demogames were a relative success. At least, there were many of them and the forum was never completely deserted. On the other hand, that must be unfortunate because it does not mean that this game has to be run similar to the other previous games. Now, you just have to live with it imho and don't get mad about it. We'll see how it would go, would be a peculiar development.

Another and important aspect of power and voting: There is a discussion where not all opinions are equal. First, there are stronger and better players out there and they suggest more reasonable plans and provide more evidence-based explanations. Of course, everyone is free to speak and make suggestions. When the thing comes to voting on officials and plans, each vote is equal to the other votes. Let's say there is a strong player who is offensive in his nature and many people around are not satisfied with his communication manners and vote against any of proposals backed up by his opinion. Not because they don't like his opinion but because they don't like him personally. Same goes for a weak player but who is polite and constructive and on good terms with everyone. He suggests stupid moves but who cares, probably the game would be won anyhow, so majority votes for him and his plans and the game goes on. I'm not implying that previous versions of the game had been dominated by very weak strength-wise but communication-skilled players albeit to some extent this can be considered true by some people. I'm thinking that this kind of situation would be a rather unpleasant one. First priority of all citizens should be taking care of the gaming process and keeping it as funny as possible. That is actually one of the reasons for the generally low difficulty levels of the single-player demogame. And this is also understandable.

A rather observant user can tell approximate player strength of each citizen rather rapidly judging by participation in other parts of the forum and nature of their comments and suggestions. So, here comes the discrepancy which must be somehow resolved. IMHO, there is nothing tricky about it and another imho, political parties and citizen groups greatly help to resolve these discrepancies. There is a job to be done for everyone and the benefit to be made for everyone during the course of this game. I fail to understand how existence of parties might interfere with job and benefits of discussion. On the contrary, it seems that this struggle should stimulate the job to be done better.

Now, to the point of new citizens having trouble adjusting themselves with the game and being elected. That is a very peculiar point imho. It seems that actually most of the elected officials for this term are new to the demogame apart from few. Would they have been elected otherwise without political support? I seriously doubt that. I have already posted that and not hiding my opinion: I'm sick and tired of lurking all the previous demogames which were run by all the same people with occasional dilution from citizen pool just to make sure there is certain level of representation. You want it to continue this way? Sure, it might be more comfortable, knowing what is going to happen and how it would turn out.

Another thought about not enough discussion of actual gaming process and too much discussion of politics and stuff of life. It seems that with a new game and hopefully a new attitude towards the game, things had to be settled and things had to be settled right and not wrong. What you think you are trying to do is to preserve the spirit of previous games and keep the current game organized at to how you think you want it to be organized. So, by doing this you are actually participating in the political struggle instead. The only reason for any type of political struggle is gaining power either directly or through increasing influence.

These are my brief thoughts and hopefully they can be met with positive attitude and not a negative one.
 
Strider if your so sure that this is the turth, just say the word and i'll put up the amendment poll.

I do have the balls to challenge your veteran prejudices, and if that pisses you off than so be it. That was not ment as a pesonal attack, just as a point, but whichever way you take it, its not up to me. If you read the posts i quotes, you would see that such upstanding members such as TheDuckofFlanders urged people to give it a chance, to NOT let there veteran prejudices get in the way. The political parties are more like advanced citizien groups, i've said this before.

Also, for the example you posted. The ones involving the idiot partee, i voted for there members BASED ON THERE PLATFORMS. I realized that after doing it. I had been against them before that, but realized my views aligned well with there members and posted that. As for the others. I was doing something called CAMPAIGNING!!!!. I was getting my position out there to those who shared my ideologies. I still recpect you, because i don't throw away respect for people because they challenge me

Also, if you think the demogame is all about the game, your wrong. Its that simple. It is ment to have flavor, and be fun. To foster thinking, and comradery. Its really is that simple.
 
TO ALL INTERESTED: Early on there was heavy talk of a polictal sunst clause after Term 3. This would mean we would vote on whether or not to keep polical parties at that time. Is anyone interested in doing this, or should we push forward wiht the amendment?
 
well said akots and swiss.

strider, I'm really stupid. in small words, cause i'm an idiot, why are u so pissed off?
 
Swissempire said:
TO ALL INTERESTED: Early on there was heavy talk of a polictal sunst clause after Term 3. This would mean we would vote on whether or not to keep polical parties at that time. Is anyone interested in doing this, or should we push forward wiht the amendment?

See this post for a way to do this.

Couple of notes on this.

First, there is no significant difference between a citizen's group and political parties as the mods permit here.

Second, slate voting is impossible to enforce (private voting).

Third, I think it's quite obvious what my preference is on this matter right now. The fact that I typed out two sentances should not be construed, by anyone, as support of this overblown hysteria some people have against our current parties.

-- Ravensfire
 
I dissagree with many of the comments made in favor of removing political parties. Factions are always present. So you either supress them or you legitamently recognize them. The system we have right now lets anyone nominate themselves, and everyone has complete freedom on each and every vote. There is NO BINDING TO PARTIES. The Power of all the parties in the civ4demogame is already little more then a rope of sand. People only vote for the party if they actually agree. The parties only have as much power as people that AGREE WITH THEM. Those people would agree with or without parties in existence. And they would probobly vote for the same people with or without parties. But Parties give them the ability to legitamately assemble. Citizen groups that call themselve parties but have no actual inherent power or rights, are still just citizen groups. I don't know what you expect to do about the majority of people choosing people they like. Thats sort of how a democracy works. Fundamentally, I don't think we will ever agree, and personally, reading all of the hot-headed harsh-toned posts bickering back and forth with each side firm in their beliefs after missing the thread for two days due to life, is really really emotionally straining. I feel like 4 or 5 days ago, this game felt relaxing and stimulating to look at. Now I feel like its more work then it should be for a game.

A note specifically for Strider.

I am sorry that so few people have come to help you to debate and I really do think its unfair. Actually, I think both sides of the fence are equal in wisdom, and I believe that there are good and wise people on both sides of this debate. More people agree with you then are posting, at least thats my personal belief based on weak intuition. I personally am slightly wounded by your responses to my post as I feel that you leave tones suggesting that the otherside of the argument is full of utter baseless and or false logic. I plan to stick with the idea of political parties because philosphically it aligns well with me. I could continue to debate but I do not have the energy or the will power at this point to carry on a back and forth discussion of this nature. I have enough philosophical and spiritual trials in my rl. I just came here to have fun and I'll still be here with or without parties. Please dont rip this post apart piece by piece also as it would frustrate me beyond belief and I would find myself compelled to defend myself and no one should feel like they are defending themselves from attacks.

A note to everyone

Relax. Seriously, tone it down a notch. Let's all just drink some Green Tea. And I hope people can have fun with or without parties, not just one way, because that limits the amount of people who can have their fun.
 
Couldn't agree more Nomad, its just i'm allergic to Green so the tea option is out! ;)

But seriously, we should not stray far from objectivity here, or else it becomes a charater debate and those solve nothing. I myself got worked up because, well my views are known.
 
Your allergic to Green? Well, I guess thats not so unreasonable. Considering I'm allergic to Censors. Hachoo.
 
I also am a diagnosed Turtle kicker so you better watch out

:joke:
 
Back
Top Bottom