Zardnaar
Deity
France is close IMHO opinion but just lacks something. No cheap buildings and a meh UU. Babylon is a great civ except on Demigod+ difficulty level. A builder/cultural powerhouse that isn't to shabby at war either.
The French
- Thread starter Keirador
- Start date
Jopedamus I
Immortality is reality
@ Zardnaar: I see your point of view. I think differently. France has no cheap buildings, yes, but that is the beauty of it. It is not "tied" in any particular tactic. France has 2 traits that support you all the time regardless what your strategy is. So it is not as one-dimensional as many of the other civs. You can react by the situation and not as for example China (warmonger is must). That is why France is great for random-games, you can play whatever strategy fits best in the situation. True, France takes skill to play well, but in my opinion France is 1st tier civ in emperor+ levels without question. But this is just based in my playing experience and the fact that I like to play random-games. Its different story if player pick conditions to favour him or if he/she is beginner.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Hey Jopedamus I, since when do we completely agree about which Civ belongs to which tier?
As long as it's not Egypt and Maya, of course
.Jopedamus I
Immortality is reality
@ Doc: Seems that world is getting extremely crazy these days..
In fact, I have played a lot lately DG and Deity games, because I have wanted to prove myself that I'm right. Sad fact is that...(GRRRRRRR) I have noticed that you are right about Egypt, it really isn't as good as I have thought and even Mayans have dropped to maybe fifth place(Maya was second before in my papers). And I have found France and its MUSKETEER extremely useful. So maybe end of the world is coming or something..
In fact, I have played a lot lately DG and Deity games, because I have wanted to prove myself that I'm right. Sad fact is that...(GRRRRRRR) I have noticed that you are right about Egypt, it really isn't as good as I have thought and even Mayans have dropped to maybe fifth place(Maya was second before in my papers). And I have found France and its MUSKETEER extremely useful. So maybe end of the world is coming or something..
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
I'd have to consider France lower 1st tier. Its actually fairly hard to get started with them because both their traits are fairly long -term. Yes, your workers work faster, but early on, thats not too big of an issue since I mine everything anyways and the city growth can't keep up with my rate of roads/mining. Add to that the fact that they are not religous and have to send some time in anarchy before governments. This is important because to really reap the benefits of the traits of France, you need to be under Republic and idealy democracy.
France also has no cheap buildings to start so at the beginning, they are slow at buildings. The french machine is probably the most powerful late game though with the extra commerce and production, but they are a challenge early on. I've actually been able to use the UU as a decent offensive as well as defensive unit. The attack of 3 sucks yeah, but its decent for finishing off hurt units.
France also has no cheap buildings to start so at the beginning, they are slow at buildings. The french machine is probably the most powerful late game though with the extra commerce and production, but they are a challenge early on. I've actually been able to use the UU as a decent offensive as well as defensive unit. The attack of 3 sucks yeah, but its decent for finishing off hurt units.
Excellent review
I just have one comment, you only mention the C3C improved musketeer.
His traits are pretty crappy in reg. Civ3. This could be why France is 2nd tier, because of the memory of the lousy UU of the former incarnation.
Now with the C3C musketeer, I could see France as much better.
thx
I just have one comment, you only mention the C3C improved musketeer.
His traits are pretty crappy in reg. Civ3. This could be why France is 2nd tier, because of the memory of the lousy UU of the former incarnation.
Now with the C3C musketeer, I could see France as much better.
thx
Globetrotter
...wherever i may roam...
Guess i have to agree to increase the rating of France. Never lost a game with them, and surely, in the latest stages, i am the super-economic power, always leading the way.
PS: i do not play lower than emperor. guess on lower level, a veteran should be able to manage himself with any kind of civ ;-)
PS: i do not play lower than emperor. guess on lower level, a veteran should be able to manage himself with any kind of civ ;-)
josephstalin
Kremlin Highlander
I agree that France is underestimated, but their UU (defence...) and traits (requiring a lot of good work to succeed) put France back where it is suppose to be.
Thx for ur good review upon how to play French.
There is one very important element i do think is missing - French have sa very strong combination in starting techs. With alphabet and masonry French can bee-line currency getting it before anybody else. Which means u easily catch up in science trading mathematics, and currency. (Dont trade mathematics right away - u need some time to get ahead on currency).
Beside catching up in tech - u also get catapults - essential for early artillery warfare (good choice as u almost not loose units). An army of 4 spearmen and 8 catapults means an early death to ur nearest neighbour.
Also early marketplaces r very good - getting 50% extra while accumulating money when the scienceslider is on 0%. U not want these expensive libraries before u move ur scienceslider to 100%.
The French UU is a genius multipurpose unit in cooperation with catapults or canons - because it protect the artillery and when the artillery have done its work they have a decent attack to finish ur opponent. Beelining Gunpowder/Metalurgy for upgrading ur spearmen/catapult army works excellent for medieval France.
Overall french r made for artillery warfare in the best napoleonic tradition.
Biggest drawback is expensive temples - best way to get by this problem is rapid expansion keep ur cities down - and try get luxuries to make extra use of ur marketplaces.
I personaly consider France one of the strongest civs overall in competition with Iroquis and perhaps Greek. I only play Vanilla so the others i dont know.
And i agree that industrious/commercial combination balance it for early and later gameplay.
There is one very important element i do think is missing - French have sa very strong combination in starting techs. With alphabet and masonry French can bee-line currency getting it before anybody else. Which means u easily catch up in science trading mathematics, and currency. (Dont trade mathematics right away - u need some time to get ahead on currency).
Beside catching up in tech - u also get catapults - essential for early artillery warfare (good choice as u almost not loose units). An army of 4 spearmen and 8 catapults means an early death to ur nearest neighbour.
Also early marketplaces r very good - getting 50% extra while accumulating money when the scienceslider is on 0%. U not want these expensive libraries before u move ur scienceslider to 100%.
The French UU is a genius multipurpose unit in cooperation with catapults or canons - because it protect the artillery and when the artillery have done its work they have a decent attack to finish ur opponent. Beelining Gunpowder/Metalurgy for upgrading ur spearmen/catapult army works excellent for medieval France.
Overall french r made for artillery warfare in the best napoleonic tradition.
Biggest drawback is expensive temples - best way to get by this problem is rapid expansion keep ur cities down - and try get luxuries to make extra use of ur marketplaces.
I personaly consider France one of the strongest civs overall in competition with Iroquis and perhaps Greek. I only play Vanilla so the others i dont know.
And i agree that industrious/commercial combination balance it for early and later gameplay.
sweeneygov
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2005
- Messages
- 57
Whenever i play with the French they always seem to be one of the weaker civilisations along with the English and Iroquios. Dunno why considering what you have said above. I think it is because they are poor starters and run out of room to expand when they have aggressive nations like Germany next to them. Their cities are always big and well developed if not the most developed however and usually hold out for a long time so i guess they are difficult to beat!
Ringo Kid
Prince
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2004
- Messages
- 536
I like the Musketeer. It's a lot of fun to beeline for needed tech, while using the industry and commerce to build as many spearmen, pikeman as possible.
Then when you can build Musketeer, upgrade all your defenders- and attack your closest neighbor with every single one of them. Empty all the cities of every military unit you have and set them to build more musketmen.
This will trigger the golden age, which will allow you to produce them even faster.
Its fun for me because I like to play land grab; build up all that land; then take some of the neighbors land- sue for peace- build that up- little by little step by step. So to just go totally wild and berserk and attack everything nearby is just plain fun.
Grab as much terriitory as you can during the golden age; then settle down and get all peaceful and build up all the territory you won. I am not saying its the best most logical strategy, just that its mucho fun, and does take advantage of the French UU and traits, such as they are.
I also think you will be surprised at how effective the Musketeers are when used "en masse" .
Just imagine a French Revolution where every Frenchman goes postal, grabs a musket and attacks every "foriegner" they can find for about twenty years. (And they say "All for one and one for All" frequently while laughing and fighting lustily and drinking large amounts of good wine.)
Warning: I play vanilla Civ at Monarch- your mileage may vary if you play a higher difficulty or newer version.
Then when you can build Musketeer, upgrade all your defenders- and attack your closest neighbor with every single one of them. Empty all the cities of every military unit you have and set them to build more musketmen.
This will trigger the golden age, which will allow you to produce them even faster.
Its fun for me because I like to play land grab; build up all that land; then take some of the neighbors land- sue for peace- build that up- little by little step by step. So to just go totally wild and berserk and attack everything nearby is just plain fun.
Grab as much terriitory as you can during the golden age; then settle down and get all peaceful and build up all the territory you won. I am not saying its the best most logical strategy, just that its mucho fun, and does take advantage of the French UU and traits, such as they are.
I also think you will be surprised at how effective the Musketeers are when used "en masse" .
Just imagine a French Revolution where every Frenchman goes postal, grabs a musket and attacks every "foriegner" they can find for about twenty years. (And they say "All for one and one for All" frequently while laughing and fighting lustily and drinking large amounts of good wine.)
Warning: I play vanilla Civ at Monarch- your mileage may vary if you play a higher difficulty or newer version.
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