The Future of Warfare - Advanced Robotics - Laser Weaponry - We Need An Update Sid!

[TheWizKid]

This is my first post on this forum, the many fields of physics have always interested me greatly so I will start in this science section ..anyway, time to dive right in.

Robots have been part of the battlefield for quite some time already. There has been much research, by the US military, concerning feasible applications for robots on the war zone. Many include unmanned aircrafts and vehicles. However, the US army is taking the next logical step to military superiority in the field of robotic weapons.

A little history: The concept of autonomous machines is, by no means, new. In ancient times, robots (as they have come to be named) were once used in ancient Rome for dramas and other spectacles. Of course, these were very simple robots, driven by a series of ropes. It appeared as if the stage, and the objects within it, moved independently. The Dark Ages were major a setback in Europe, and many technological advancements were lost, having to be rediscovered.

More modern uses of robots include assembly lines and other automated services. Seeing the many military advantages possible, it was only really a matter of time before a world-class military funded world-class research and development programs to usher the world into a new generation of war fare.

Many realized where the world was going. A variety of science fictions from the past few decades are based on worlds ravaged by technological advances in robotics. The potential for self-destruction is high which always makes for a good story.

Whether you like the major cinematic productions such as the Matrix, tactical espionage actions as brought forth by Metal Gear, or a cornucopia of animes that have to do with giant robots (i.e. Gundams!) you are bound to have heard a story where extremely advanced machines owned the battlefield and changed world. If anything, the world will probably take the form seen in Ghost in the Shell. Basically, everything will be integrated with a computer (RFID Chips and all..). We will have robots (probably not talking) that can be sent out, either controlled by a soldier or completely autonomous, to complete various missions or tasks that they were designed for. The applications will range from domestic to conflicts abroad. It's only a matter of time.

Hideo Kojima's prophecy has come true. The next generation of war fare is here. YES. here today. This is only a small piece of what the largest army modernization initiative to date brings us. If at some point you do not believe these technologies exist check them out yourself.. Google is basically a repository for a vast majority of information thats available today. (Of Course the US gov wanted that too )

First, a little about this moderation plan, in case you do not know about it. The United States military plans to remain the most powerful military force on land, air, and sea. All of us civers must admit, the US conquered the Air and Sea quite some time ago. The sea has been America's playground since the end of the cold war. America maintains its air superiority with the most advanced aircraft, anti-aircraft, and anti-anti-aircraft arsenals known to mankind (I will go into detail later). Next, was land superiority. Being able to control the land, without losing human life, has been a crucial goal for the US for some time now. Advancements in land support from air and sea are proof of that. Systems to provide soldiers with superb communications, intelligence, and up-to-date orders haven taken form in the land warrior system. To compliment this even further, the US government is funding the development and creation of autonomous robots that fire guns, blow up IEDs (improvised explosive devices), and recon areas unaccessible to any human. 50 years from now, the world will be a totally different place. Quite terrifying really. Technology is a wonderful thing. In the wrong hands it will be disastrous. In the world we live in today, technology in the wrong hands could mean Armageddon.

In this thread I will focus on the robotics being developed for the army, and the advanced laser weaponry already developed and tested.

The US army has agreed to provide $38 million more dollars for funding for the "Micro Autonomous Systems and Technology (MAST) Collaborative Technology Alliance".

MAST will build the army small robot insects. The applications of such robots in war fare are almost limitless, with further R&D. As of now, they plan to use these devices in urban environments for uber surveillance capabilities. Designs that have been agreed upon include, of course, the eight-legged spider. Other designs include a flying type, a dragon fly as well as a slithering type, a snake. This system has yet to be built (yet to be release anyways), but once completed this will add a vast advantage to the US army. Coupled with the numerous advancements being made in this moderation initiative (such as the land warrior system, the US army will have no true rival when it comes to technology on the battlefield. This is a civ forum, I am sure we all understand knowledge is power, and science owns the battlefield.

Here is a picture of what these robots will look like.

Spider:

Dragon Fly:

Couldn't find a pic of the snake.

Here is a promotional video released:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CM-H3rRkxQ

Still not convinced we are entering a new era? Take a look at what DARPA funded.. yea yea the same agency from metal gear solid

Enter BigDog!

This mechanical beauty blew my mind. This robotic dog weighs 235 lbs and in the instance shown below is carrying a 340 lb payload. It would be quite easy to mount a gun on this thing..as seen with the autonomous vehicles the military already has. To my knowledge this machine can be controlled via remote control or it can be given a path (or mission) to complete.

YouTube Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww&feature=related

As you can see, BigDog can't be knocked down. This piece of ultra complex electronics and programing astounds me. With MAST, they plan to shrink it and use the form of insects. Nature got many things right..even how to balance perfectly.

If, at this point in this thread, you are not surprised then maybe this get you. Although these laser technologies have been around for a little while, they still show me the potential of defensive and offensive weaponries.

The military released three versions of a laser, that I originally saw on Future Weapons, a television show on the military channel. Me, being my usual skeptical self, decided to Google search and see what I can come up with.

The Boeing ABL (Airborn Laser), the Boeing ATL (Air Tactical Laser), and the MTHEL (Mobile Tactical High Energy Laser) when fully implemented and established will put America and it's allies behind an impenetrable iron curtain. Chemical lasers have been tested with since the 1960s. They are extremely effective and precise. Each shot is cheaper than a smart bomb (worth millions each) and they can be used in space.

The ABL was developed to destroy ballistic missiles while they are in their boost phase of flight. Below is a .pdf released by Beoing.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/abl/doc_src/ABL_overview.pdf

Here you can watch a youtube video of the ABL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w-ql8msl0U

Lets take a look at the ATL. This version of the ABL is designed to fire its laser a the ground. Ground targets, such as tanks, can be targeted and destroyed miles in the air by aiming the laser at its fuel tank.

Picture of the ATL:
http://regmedia.co.uk/2007/12/11/advanced_tactical_laser.jpg


The MTHEL was a joint project shared by the US and Israel. Applications would have been to protect Israel from missile attacks form Hamas. This device is mounted on a ground turret which can rotate 360 degrees. It can tilt up and down to get any angle in order to aim at an incoming projectile. There is video footage of this laser destroying missiles, artillery rounds, and mortar rounds in full flight. The video is on this page.

Well that pretty much explains some routes the US military is taking today. Remember, this is only what is revealed to us. WHAT The US government really HIDES things from it's citizens??!?! Yes..who knows what is being worked on behind closed doors.. In the past the United States developed the most powerful weapon known to man in complete secrecy, splurging billions in the process. It was all in order to nuke two very populated cities which killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese in a single flash..condemning many more to a fate that is worse than death. A slow and painful self-destruction of one's body do to radioactive dust that spread with the winds.

Is this all the US has to offer? HELL no. I am too lazy to post about the advancements in naval ships (the perfect platform for something like the MTHEL), rail guns (firing undetectable projectiles hundreds of miles), and mind boggling advancements in space exploration. One thread is not enough to talk about everything the US Army released about its new initiative.

, last I checked Arms Races were between two or more countries. What is the US army escalating for? Lets leave speculation for another thread . Nothing like real world civ...America does it like other .

Somehow, I wouldn't rather live anywhere else.:

 

[sourboy]

The dog video is cool, I love that one.

The insects are old, they've been around a while now. The rest would be recon based or remotely controlled at best. There's no way to distinguish between civilians, enemy soldiers, and friendly soldiers.

 

[TheWizKid]

That it until the US installs chips similar to RFID chips into the uniforms of its soldiers. The land warrior system, being developed, will enable extremely advanced logistics. It will allow for robots to distinguish friend from foe.

Every single soldier will be connected. This enables command to receive video from any soldier's camera. (yea..cameras). The land warrior system will outfit every soldier with the latest technology. Command will be able to watch the movements of every single soldier on the battle field..Thats not a joke. Orders can be given directly to any soldier or their commanding officer.

Soldiers will have a heads up display attached to their helmet. A small computer to look at maps and other useful real-time information that's continuously updated. This is the best logistics can get. Every single soldier will be told what to do exactly when something needs to be done.

It is child's play to outfit the land warrior system with an extra chip, that sends data to a robot that tells whether or not it should shoot at it. Who knows the amount of encryption that could be used. The command center, which watches the movement of every single soldier, can look out for enemies that try to pick up allied clothes. It would be suspicious for some random soldier to be 10 miles away from his unit...it would be impossible for the unit commander to not know whats going on with every member of his unit anyway. Its very possible for this chip to be "deactivated" remotely as well.

As for civilians..robots can also look for the outlines of guns, explosives, and other munitions..Yes robots can be programmed to detect weapons. The US already has electronics that can detect the outline of tanks and other military hardware. In a decade's time who knows what the US will bring forth.

If you think something as trivial as determining friend from foe will stop the US military from achieving whatever objectives its trying to achieve, you are sadly mistaken.

At this point in time the US military is looking into recon based applications for these insect robots. The US also already has remotely controlled vehicles with mounted guns on them.

 

[TheWizKid]

From the same designers who made BigDog come many other robots. Boston Dynamics and DARPA have been at this for quite a while. Here are some other you tube and official videos of robots they made.

LittleDog: A small version of BigDog, I'd like to have one.

YouTube vid

RiSe: A wall-climbing robot

YouTube vid

RHex: Amphibians robot, capable of being outfitted with fins to become water based.

YouTube vid: Rhex on 2 legs, moving pretty fast.

 

[DNK]

Lets not forget:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Force_Warrior
The things we can do with nanotech and advanced electronics...

Combining energy weapons with unmanned recon vehicles would be far better for air superiority than the current concept of throwing up ungodly expensive planes in droves. I think the F-22 program will quickly find itself turning into a pure strike fighter program, with no real use as an air superiority fighter once this change occurs.

I get the feeling warfare in general is going to hit a revolutionary point where everything changes yet again - something akin to the distinction between early Greek phalanxes and WWII armored divisions.

I don't quite share your enthusiasm, though. I personally don't want to share a planet with both humans and this technology, especially once it gets highly advanced.

I would, however, like to hear more. I'm always interested in the newest ways the US armed forces are going to go about killing stuff.

 

[sourboy]

I agree on air force changes, that's almost ready immediately. Naval drones are also already in use, defensively. It's ground forces that are a ways out.

 

[TheWizKid]

Edit: I spelled magnetism wrong

Lets not forget:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Force_Warrior
The things we can do with nanotech and advanced electronics...

Combining energy weapons with unmanned recon vehicles would be far better for air superiority than the current concept of throwing up ungodly expensive planes in droves. I think the F-22 program will quickly find itself turning into a pure strike fighter program, with no real use as an air superiority fighter once this change occurs.

I get the feeling warfare in general is going to hit a revolutionary point where everything changes yet again - something akin to the distinction between early Greek phalanxes and WWII armored divisions.

I don't quite share your enthusiasm, though. I personally don't want to share a planet with both humans and this technology, especially once it gets highly advanced.

I would, however, like to hear more. I'm always interested in the newest ways the US armed forces are going to go about killing stuff.

Cool, very interesting.

As for you not wanting to share this planet with humans and our dangerous technology, it's up to the people to keep their leaders in line. Citizens in the U.S. are too passive these days, allowing lobbyists and corporations to influence politics behind closed doors. People need to express their rights, as many did in the civil rights movement, in order to keep their government in line. People should be outraged about failing education systems, corrupt military contractors (i.e. Haliburton), increased police brutality, endless wars.., the list goes on but its off topic. Not easy, but definately possible. American participation in governance isn't the topic so I will stop there . Like Big Guns?

RAIL GUNS!: Truly fascinating.

Rail guns aren't really new, and not they are not independently owned by tge US. However, the U.S is spending much money on developing military applications. They use energy, stored in an array of capacitors, to magnetically increase the speed of a projectile. Some rail guns have an initial explosive charge to initiate movement of the projectile before the magnetic field is applied, increasing the power. Rail guns are the future when it comes to precision bombing, some currently having a range of over 600 miles when shot at an arc. GPS can be used for complete precision within a few hundred miles.

The explosively injected projectiles can reach 20 kilometers per second. Unfortunately, the rail itself takes much damage from the extreme heat. A heat-resistance, conductive material must be found in order to repeat shots with these types of projectiles.

DARPA has its hand in this too, having already developed a 90m, 9 megajoule, rail gun. That is 6.6 million foot-pounds of force. The US military is also funding rail gun experiments. Wear issues still need to be figured out before these replace conventional weapons. It is only a matter of time before US investments pay off in this area.

This image shows 5,600 miles per hour at 10 megajoules of energy. Just wow. Rail guns do not even need warheads. The kinetic energy of the object by itself is enough to destroy most targets...whether you want to sink a ship, blow up a tank, or take out a broad area with small pellets that rain death everywhere around your enemy..

Here is a YouTube video of the above pic:

Future Weapons: Get Learned About Rail Guns

Metal Gear is a fictional robot from, Hideo Kojima's "Metal Gear Solid," with a shoulder mounted Rail Gun which could fire conventional and nuclear warheads that are undetectable by radar...People have known the advantages to using rail guns for some time and its finally being put into practice. Once again science fiction becomes reality.

Another rail gun test for you.

-To learn more read this wiki.

Nuclear Fusion Anyone?

Nuclear fusion will place humanity into brand new era. The best and the brightest minds in the world are working diligently to usher a new golden age for man kind.

Would nuclear fusion really have that kind of effect on us? In short, yes. As more limiting factors (such as oil and other limited resources) are become obsolete, science is better able to flourish, and with it, the human population. Almost limitless clean energy will enable societies to become eco-friendly. It is up to the people to urge their governments for change ;]. Viva La Revolucion!

Imagine a world where there is no concern about energy. Anywhere you go there will be clean and efficient electricity. Not to mention, extremely cheap, just pennies. From cars, to street lights, to entire cities, and beyond fusion will be the world's premiere clean energy source, coupled with solar and wind energy.

Any number of fusion reactors can be built to take care of the needs of all the people on Earth and in space. Yes, thats right, fusion reactors in space will one day allow us to build pretty much anything we want. From space stations to space ships (mother ships..). The greatest minds in the world have been thinking of doing this since they were kids, watching movies like Star Wars. The time is very near. The trend continues as science fiction, becomes science reality once again.

You might think these predictions are far-fetched..think again. Unlimited energy gives us the potential to do anything...since energy (in electrical form) can be converted into..pretty much anything, very easily. From completing work, to facilitating chemical reactions, to feeding plants and animals, energy provides a means to do anything.

Not enough farm land you say? Build artificial environments, several stories high. If there is not enough area...there is a lot of height that can be used. Skyscraper farms Provide perfect lighting and moister controls. Power this enormous project cheaply. All the labor can be automated, powered cheaply by fusion. Who knows, robotics will probably advance enough for robots to do all the work..even build the place, ALL powered by cheap fusion power.

This is reason enough for many countries around the world, including but not limited to: the United States, Britain and many other European countries, China, S. Korea, France, and more to work together to build the worlds first working fusion reactor power plant! the greatest minds in this field of physics are working on this project, young and old. in 30 years, the world may change radically as fuel usage declines in all major industrial countries in the world and cleaner fusion power replaces them. I love the glow of the plasma in a fusion reactor. It makes me feel warm inside.

Here is a youtube vid that explains this project. There are also nice simulations in the beginning about how the fusion process takes place, its advantages over fission, and its safety. over 10 mins.

Science Rules The World.

PS: Believe it or not, scientists probably have a good theory on how anything science fiction can work, as long as its possible in the universe. From force fields to light sabers lol. Via the scientific method, just about anything can be deduced. As long as there is enough experimenting and time allocated towards it.

 

[DNK]

I'm more interested in what you called the US's "new initiative". I want to look at how they're going to integrate current and cutting edge technologies into a comprehensive strategic framework.

 

[TheWizKid]

I'm more interested in what you called the US's "new initiative". I want to look at how they're going to integrate current and cutting edge technologies into a comprehensive strategic framework.

Thanks for your interest. The "new initiative" actually started in 2001. Deliberation about modernization began in 1999. It's true name is the Army's Modernization Plan and every year since 2001, updates about it's progress and future goals have been released by the United States Army. Here is the 2007 Army Modernization Plan.

Here are the other plans release: 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006.

Future Combat Systems (FCS) is the Army's key modernization program, with the objective of providing soldiers with the best technology and equipment as soon as it becomes practical to use on the battle field. It is a joint program (extending across all of the US military services) that will network the armed forces in one "super" system, also known as the System of Systems Common Operating Environment (SOSCOE). The goal is unrivaled situational awareness providing troops on the ground with unrivaled support and connectivity.

The FCS consists of five layers. These layers include: Standards, Transport, Services, Applications, and Sensor and Platforms. When combined all of the layers will act together, providing perfect data and communications delivery anywhere it needs to be.

FCS itself is made up of several subsystems.

Here is a time line about past and future progress of FCS.

There is a wealth of information available, I believe the summary above and the links provide will answer any questions you have.

The Future Force Warrior, Land Warrior, and the numerous advancements in robotics and unmanned vehicles for recon and the various other applications are all part of the Army's Modernization Plan to integrate all of the armed forces into one unified force, with networking and communications on a scale in the battlefield never before seen.

 

[a_propagandist]

I seriously need to invent the warp drive. A railgun in space, with minimal friction, would have immense potential.

 

[Slaughter]

I believe that the future of warfare lies in two words:

Fusion Power.

I think that the biggest revolution of warfare is going to be Power Armor. Did anyone here play Fallout? That's just what I imagine as armor in the future. Why build tanks who are slow and rather bad to manuever and depend on fossil fuels when you can have HUMAN TANKS who relly on fusion power, carry more firepower per soldier than a entire squad of normal infantry, are super-strong and manage to survive hauls of gunfire? That's right, Power Armor is going to be THE THING soon. If Fusion Power happens (and it WILL HAPPEN), we'll have Power Armor, and probrably energy weapons, too. Gauss Weapons and Rail Guns are also coming, both been invented already, in fact.

EDIT: IF lasers are developed, I think that air battles will lessen. Imagine a Anti-Air laser hitting a plane. A big hole in the plane and everyone's seriously dead. And it's almost impossible to avoid a atack at the speed of light.

 

[Souron]

EDIT: IF lasers are developed, I think that air battles will lessen. Imagine a Anti-Air laser hitting a plane. A big hole in the plane and everyone's seriously dead. And it's almost impossible to avoid a atack at the speed of light.

You mean like the [wiki]Tactical High Energy Laser[/wiki] and [wiki]Airborne Laser[/wiki]?

Lasers don't burn through targets, they heat them up and cause them to explode. Neither of these two systems are designed to target aircraft, though the Airborne laser may be usable for this purpose.

With lasers, the largest challenges are still targeting. High energy lasers will refract in the atmosphere, so precise calculations are needed. Further, lasers need a target for several seconds to achieve a kill.

 

[TheWizKid]

I believe that the future of warfare lies in two words:

Fusion Power.

I think that the biggest revolution of warfare is going to be Power Armor. Did anyone here play Fallout? That's just what I imagine as armor in the future. Why build tanks who are slow and rather bad to manuever and depend on fossil fuels when you can have HUMAN TANKS who relly on fusion power, carry more firepower per soldier than a entire squad of normal infantry, are super-strong and manage to survive hauls of gunfire? That's right, Power Armor is going to be THE THING soon. If Fusion Power happens (and it WILL HAPPEN), we'll have Power Armor, and probrably energy weapons, too. Gauss Weapons and Rail Guns are also coming, both been invented already, in fact.

EDIT: IF lasers are developed, I think that air battles will lessen. Imagine a Anti-Air laser hitting a plane. A big hole in the plane and everyone's seriously dead. And it's almost impossible to avoid a atack at the speed of light.

A fusion reactor is quite large. For such power suits to be possible, there needs to be advancements in batteries. I don't see the conventional gunpowder based munitions going away anytime soon for the infantry man in any country. Rail guns truly shine when they are very large, and fire projectiles hundreds of miles, without the use of rocket fuels. As for lasers, they too require A LOT of power. Equipping an entire army with rail guns and lasers would be too expensive, even for the US.

The US military is aiming at reducing the risk to individual soldiers by using machines. In WWII, hundreds of thousands of American soldiers died. Today, America's public opinion towards a war can be changed with a few thousands deaths, as seen in Irag. Unmanned vehicles and aircrafts are only the beginning. Darpa funded projects, such as BigDog show us which direction the military is going. Why even put humans at risk? If machines can do the job better...well..not yet..but we are getting there. Advanced robots specialized for an environment, whether it is a desert, rain forest, or mountaintop, underwater, an urban area, or underground will be more effective than a frail person. We still have a long way to go of course. Until then, the future force warrior will rule unmatched.

The US is not the only country to modernize is infantry btw, and it was most certainly not the first. However, the United States is modernizing on a scale never before seen.

The F-22 Raptor, the next generation aircraft, has inhibitors...to decrease its performance so the human pilot wont die while doing high speed maneuvers. From air, to sea, to land, soldiers in the US will continue to play a more limited role in warfare as time goes on and as technology advances. Well, thats my prediction anyway.

 

[civ_king]

to expensive?... covert operations as maybe 100 people? could be excellent saboteurs

 

[Perfection]

Gentlemen gentlemen, the true future lies in Giant Death Robots.

What is going to be interesting to see is how much judgement we can program into these things. I wonder how soon it will be until we just drop off some robots, and let them do all the dirty work.