The game is too fast and too easy

[tsf4]

Civ6 tends to play fast, with smaller maps and quicker games/amount of turns.

I prefer Civ5's longer games and more slower approach, but really something in between these would be perfect.

Going from 6 to 5, my 5 game on epic seems like its taking forever lol.

 

[MrRadar]

Oky... time to bring back the % research/civics cost increase per city from BNW.... that ought to solve all your problems.

5% increase in tech/civic cost per additional city founded, and make this 7.5% for captured cities. This should nerf warmongering completely. In the meantime, make a city able to build more than one copy of a particular district (rewards taller cities) or make GPP tied to city pop.

Or perhaps it is time to become more creative. Specific technology does not automatically become more difficult to research just because you acquired a new city. Along with global happiness and requirement for a specific building to be present in all cities for a national wonder, this arbitrary penalty on research was one of the top three worst features in Civ V. May it never return.

Warmongering could be toned down by other more realistic means, like bringing back the unrest period just after conquest, so that conquered cities do not become instantly productive but require some pacification and integration first. Or losing all the tiles beyond the first ring.

 

[Pietato]

Or perhaps it is time to become more creative. Specific technology does not automatically become more difficult to research just because you acquired a new city. Along with global happiness and requirement for a specific building to be present in all cities for a national wonder, this arbitrary penalty on research was one of the top three worst features in Civ V. May it never return.

Warmongering could be toned down by other more realistic means, like bringing back the unrest period just after conquest, so that conquered cities do not become instantly productive but require some pacification and integration first. Or losing all the tiles beyond the first ring.

Not sure how an unrest period would gel wth the loyalty mechanic and free cities.

As for tall versus wide, they really, really need to do something. The new diplomatic quarter was touted as favouring tall, but that seems untrue.

 

[Myomoto]

Not sure how an unrest period would gel wth the loyalty mechanic and free cities.

As for tall versus wide, they really, really need to do something. The new diplomatic quarter was touted as favouring tall, but that seems untrue.

Meanwhile specialists remain neglected like a redheaded step-child.

 

[AlanC9]

For what percentage of players is Deity actually fast and easy? I'm not sure this is a rational expenditure of dev time.

 

[MrRadar]

Not sure how an unrest period would gel wth the loyalty mechanic and free cities.

Yes, true. Well then, loyalty mechanics could be revisited and deepened. Loyalty could be made more sensitive to long-lasting lack of amenities, and there should be, perhaps, a representation of nationality of the pops, living in a city, with certain impact on loyalty, as well as other factors.

As for this Tall vs Wide... I see it as a bad dream, some sort of obsession, an affliction that Civ V brought upon us, and now players would just not let go of it, as in some curious case of the Stockholm syndrome.
I do believe it should be better to have more of everything than less of everything. You could make less of everything work to 'win', as it is now in Civ VI, but having more of everything should be better. However, it should be rather tricky to keep that more of everything in one piece and work efficiently together, and that's what is currently lacking in Civ VI. There is no internal tensions, there is no fall.

Expansion should be rewarding and encouraged, but large empires, especially those built on several conquests, should be quite difficult to keep together. For me it would be much more interesting to get a large empire and try my best to hold it in one piece, not letting it fall apart, if I could.

 

[Pietato]

For what percentage of players is Deity actually fast and easy? I'm not sure this is a rational expenditure of dev time.

Even if you discount the 'too easy' part, the game is still far too fast. The eras do not line up, at all.

 

[blacai]

it's too easy if you always play the same way... or you configure the settings for a specific type of game you want to follow.
Try to put all settings random and go for any victory type your civ is not best oriented and then tell us how easy the game is...

 

[AlanC9]

Even if you discount the 'too easy' part, the game is still far too fast. The eras do not line up, at all.

*shrugs* On Deity, sure. But the fix for that is to change how game turns convert to dates on the higher difficulty levels. It's purely cosmetic.

I suspect they deliberately didn't do this because they want players to feel good because they achieved space travel in 1200 AD or whatever.

 

[hhhhhh]

One problem of VI is chopping give far too much production. Chop 3 woods with the right policy you get Pyramids. Chop 5 you get Kilwa Kisiwani. End game space project? Chop a few woods to complete them.

The fact that end game chop gives 200 production without Magnus is just bad. If chop goes from say 20 early game to 80 production end game (i.e. reduce the coefficient from 9 to 3, so end game chop is 4x instead of 10x of base chop) maybe it make more sense for player to boost production. Right now nothing get you more production than chopping.

 

[Pietato]

*shrugs* On Deity, sure. But the fix for that is to change how game turns convert to dates on the higher difficulty levels. It's purely cosmetic.

I suspect they deliberately didn't do this because they want players to feel good because they achieved space travel in 1200 AD or whatever.

It is not cosmetic. The game needs to be slowed down so it does not end so early.

 

[AlanC9]

It is not cosmetic. The game needs to be slowed down so it does not end so early.

Why?

More specifically, how many turns should a game take? I'm happy with the number it takes now, but it looks like I'm not as awesome a player as you are.

 

[Pietato]

Why?

More specifically, how many turns should a game take? I'm happy with the number it takes now, but it looks like I'm not as awesome a player as you are.

If you went all out, when would you finish?

 

[ADHansa]

I agree. Most issues that speed up the game a lot have bin mentioned.

End game techs are to cheap- Increase end game tech cost, add cost per city to tecs.
Chopping gives a shitload of yield- Make it less efficient
Gold are to plenty- More upkeep, don't make it so damn easy to haggle gold from the AI.
AI settings to easy- Give it more bonuses, give it new kind of bonuses, let the bonuses escalate as the game goes on as the AI gets less and less competitive.
Keep the game short because playing when you know you're winning is tedious- Rename domination victory to conquest, let the domination be a victory that is mainly achieved when you are far ahead score wise.

 

[huptiel]

Don't recognize the easiness at all. I'm currently playing a game with Mali with Scotland, Korea and Sumeria on deity and I definitely have to give it my all. Trying to get past level 4 gdrs currently to try and wipe out 800 science a turn Gilgamesh before his spaceship finishes its journey. Luckily he build so many of them that my level 1 gdrs are strong cause he's having uranium deficit. Still they're getting murdered by his jet fighters if I take one step away from my mobile sams. Also I didnt mention that Simon Bolivar forward settled and rushed me with knights and crossbows in the early game.

In my last deity game I had the same experience, Scotland went ballistic in science and beating them was a struggle.

 

[Kibikus]

I'd assume that for most of the experienced players with hundreds of hours and good understanding of the gameplay systems, the game is decided by turn 100-150 even on Deity.
So, increasing the game length just to stretch the end out, I see no point. Adding/changing gameplay mechanisms to introduce some interesting decisions late game - great! Maybe some of the other game modes will introduce that.

 

[lotrmith]

There's definitely an issue with yields, I mean I love crazy yield tiles and everything but it's getting a bit much.

For me it's to the point where I feel like I have to reroll if my starting yields don't look amazing and that's a horsehockey mindset but a product of the current state of the game.

 

[lotrmith]

For what percentage of players is Deity actually fast and easy? I'm not sure this is a rational expenditure of dev time.

I agree with this sentiment. I play now for speed and aiming for personal records that resemble those of the best, but it's clear to me that not only is this the ultra minority but also that even those games where you're pushing great speeds are few and far between.

 

[Sostratus]

Too much gold means you can too easily bypass production, especially of units.

There’s another side of this coin.
If you build production in any meaningful way, (just mine hills for goodness sake) there is nothing to spend gold on. You will run out of strategics long before maintenance even makes a dent. You have your army. You can build districts and buildings. There’s just nothing to do but pile it up!

Now as @acluewithout pointed out civ5 had a very different approach to gold. You had to work to have a surplus, and then you could spend that on things. So gold was almost a play style.
Whereas in 6 it’s sort of default that you have gold income, it’s just a question of how much. So the fulcrum shift at play is quite significant since there’s no play style that doesn’t have you cash positive.
This aspect I think drains a lot out of the game since you don’t have that constraint on your power. It really contributes to the feeling of bucket filling, since you just need to work on getting more campuses and campus buildings unlocked. You don’t have to think about making sure other things, like gold, is in place so you can afford that expansion.
I miss that because the more skilled you got the smoother you could line this up.

 

[Pietato]

Don't recognize the easiness at all. I'm currently playing a game with Mali with Scotland, Korea and Sumeria on deity and I definitely have to give it my all. Trying to get past level 4 gdrs currently to try and wipe out 800 science a turn Gilgamesh before his spaceship finishes its journey. Luckily he build so many of them that my level 1 gdrs are strong cause he's having uranium deficit. Still they're getting murdered by his jet fighters if I take one step away from my mobile sams. Also I didnt mention that Simon Bolivar forward settled and rushed me with knights and crossbows in the early game.

In my last deity game I had the same experience, Scotland went ballistic in science and beating them was a struggle.

That sounds awesome. Wish deity was always like that.