If I made a Youtube of myself playing Civ5 at King level, would you (or anybody) watch it?
The gap between prince and king
- Thread starter Jussiut
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If I made a Youtube of myself playing Civ5 at King level, would you (or anybody) watch it?
Cheeseisgood
Warlord
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Odd, I find my King/Emporer victories come mostly from playing an "open" game until about turn 150, and then deciding on a victory type. I find if I try and work too much on culture/science/military specifically then I just totally ignore the others and drive myself into a losing situation. I like getting a ground base, same with what you were saying about choosing your options with rationalism and piety!
PreLynMax
Your Lord and Master
I resent not being called a hardcore CIV player. I play Prince, because I can't stand the handicaps that are given to me, and I play just as hard as any other loser that plays King or higher. How dare you? I bet you half the people that play Prince are far more skilled than those who cheat and hack their way through higher levels.
builer680
eats too much Taco Bell
- Joined
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You need to relax.
Guardian_PL
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2006
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- 1,231
Yeah, and take a reality check too. Playing Prince is a yawnfest. There're only three dificulty levels in Civ5 - Easy (Emperor), Normal (Immortal) and Hard (Deity), anything less than that and the game plays itself.
Seriously people, this is not Civ4, 3 or 2. This is
You guys should post pictures of your games (savegames would be better but unfortunately DLC causes compatibility problems) so that higher levels players could give you some advice to improve you play. I don't wan't to sound arrogant but it's possible to absolutely crush King (so that by early ADs you are so much ahead in everything that you can just pick your winning condition). It all goes back to the early game and little things and choices you make there.
Well this is pretty condescending, but kudos to you "tough guy".
I actually just beat my first King game. I think I was extremely lucky. The map was continents (large), and I was Alexander. I started the game with China being practically right next to me on this medium-sized continent, nobody else around. So I knew I had to wipe them out asap and with Hoplites it wasn't too difficult at all. I think the barbs destroyed the Chinese settler so I only had to take Beijing.
So once I had the continent all to myself (around 500bc if I remember correctly), I was able to expand and really focus on optimizing my cities. I think this was absolutely key in my victory - I knew the AI sucks at invasions so I didn't need to build many units at all, which has been something that I've struggled with on King. So I was able to build universities, markets, banks etc. all over.
Moreover, the continent was pretty nice with some nice flood river tiles. So basically I had three cities next to these tiles which was an awesome boost to my economy, then a few coastal cities and a couple of nice production cities. I think I had eight cities overall.
However, I knew being isolated had also negative consequences because of the lack or RAs, so I beelined to Astronomy and build a caravel asap. That was also absolutely essential. Every civ I met was friendly because I wasn't a threat. My economy was humming along nicely so I was able to spam RAs and thanks to my many luxury resources, was able to trade them for others so my cities were able to grow.
From then on, it was easier than I expected. I got ahead in techs and got an easy space race victory. Nobody else even built the Apollo Program. But again, I think I was lucky because I had a continent to myself with good resources and tiles.
I played with Alexander because I tried to heed the advice and utilize city states more. I was able to ally with multiple, and I think it really helped too. For the first time I realized they can be very useful, although I had the money to buy them just because I didn't have to focus on my military (in the end I think I had the strongest military just in case, but I was far ahead by then).
So thanks all so far for the tips, I'm so happy I won by first game on King
But then again, next time I'm playing on Pangaea and I need to be ready to defend myself agressively.I'm sure this is absolutely correct. I think once you understand the game on deeper level (know the tech tree inside and out, know the different AI diplo behaviors etc.), crushing King becomes more or less inevitable. Then again, like I said, I've never been a hardcore player, just an avid one, and I've never really intensely studied any of the civ games. I've just enjoyed them. But I think you're absolutely right.
Well Prince is too easy, although it could easily be much harder. For example in my Prince games I usually end up building a huge army and conquering everyone, because the AI can out-wonder and out-gold me very easily owing to its happiness cheats.
However, because maintaining a large army is so expensive, even when I raze poor cities and slap down trading posts on every inch of available land, I am still vulnerable even at the peak of my power if only the AI would GANG UP on me, i.e. pool its resources and send all its armies at once and in different directions (fronts - it could easily carve up the less well-defended parts of my empire while the main army is staking out half-way across the world).
If the AI took me in the a'ss more often, I wouldn't win all the time ... the AI already has the resources it needs at Prince to beat me, it just doesn't use them.
So programmers being programmers, they respond by saying 'Meh, just give the AI moar bonuses' - because they are too lazy to program a better AI and they take shortcuts ALL THE TIME.
However, because maintaining a large army is so expensive, even when I raze poor cities and slap down trading posts on every inch of available land, I am still vulnerable even at the peak of my power if only the AI would GANG UP on me, i.e. pool its resources and send all its armies at once and in different directions (fronts - it could easily carve up the less well-defended parts of my empire while the main army is staking out half-way across the world).
If the AI took me in the a'ss more often, I wouldn't win all the time ... the AI already has the resources it needs at Prince to beat me, it just doesn't use them.
So programmers being programmers, they respond by saying 'Meh, just give the AI moar bonuses' - because they are too lazy to program a better AI and they take shortcuts ALL THE TIME.
WimpyTheWarrior
Warlord
Do people feel that King with a huge map is harder than King on a smaller map? My experience on King/Huge is similar to Ellye (post #5); Some AI is ahead of me on every aspect. I have won at King level but it was a Dual map as Germany, and I rushed. For King/Huge some AI somewhere just gets too far ahead, usually via military over their neighbors.
I will try some of the ideas here, but I would be interested if the "King crushers" could also post their map size.
I will try some of the ideas here, but I would be interested if the "King crushers" could also post their map size.
Aristos
Lightseeker
This. I find it easy, but I am not bragging (not anymore
), and never use the settings in my favour. That said, I find Emperor a nice place to stay on with the correct settings (not archis, larger maps, etc).Also, I am trying a new variant now that is giving me some more fun in the first trial: I am using only Diplomacy and WWGD components of Thal's VEM, plus I modified some variables of the game, namely the distance between cities (up to 4 tiles), and the hitpoints of both units and cities doubled (to 20 and 50 respectively).
First early results are encouraging, pointing that perhaps part of the AI failures in warfare may be due to lack of space, ergo the scale problem.
Will let you know more when I advance.
PreLynMax
Your Lord and Master
<snipped by Your Lord and Master>
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Now that I got that out of my system...
...sigh... My temper gets the best of me sometimes.
Here's a prince game I recently abandoned. Notice the 0
, 1 
will be traded off in 1 turn when the Colliseum is built, but will both turn red in a couple more turns. Diplomacy in this game is nonexistant, and my patience for this game has gone as well.I'm giving up Civ for awhile and playing a game that dosen't want me want to throw my computer. This is the fifth straight game I've abandoned by turn 100 right now, so I've given up.
builer680
eats too much Taco Bell
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2010
- Messages
- 525
<snipped by Your Lord and Master>
...
...
<more snipping>
Now that I got that out of my system...
...sigh... My temper gets the best of me sometimes.
Here's a prince game I recently abandoned. Notice the 0
I'm giving up Civ for awhile and playing a game that dosen't want me want to throw my computer. This is the fifth straight game I've abandoned by turn 100 right now, so I've given up.
A few posts up, you seemed upset that some imaginary internet person "dared" to say you're not a "hardcore civver" (whatever that means, and besides I didn't see anyone say this, but w/e).
Now I guarantee you that WHATEVER prince level game save you just uploaded could be turned into a win with a few adjustments. If you were "hardcore," you'd know what those adjustments were and make them... and you certainly wouldn't be here ready to throw your computer in response to some probable dork like me on a forum "daring" to say something. Or not say something. I can't really tell which one it is.
I'll just revert back to my original point. You need to relax. If you're looking for advice in this particular game save, I'm sure somebody here is kind enough to spend the time to look at it for you and perhaps even brave enough to make some suggestions to you... if you ask. I personally am neither kind nor brave, so I will not be that person. Good luck and have a nice day.
<snipped by Your Lord and Master>
...
...
<more snipping>
Now that I got that out of my system...
...sigh... My temper gets the best of me sometimes.
Here's a prince game I recently abandoned. Notice the 0
I'm giving up Civ for awhile and playing a game that dosen't want me want to throw my computer. This is the fifth straight game I've abandoned by turn 100 right now, so I've given up.
Alright, a few things spring to mind after checking the save.
1. This is something I often see; lack of exploration. You've met only other civs that have come to you, no city states, and have found no natural wonders. A good idea for your first order of business is to build a scout and have in mind the goal of exploring your entire starting landmass.
2. Did you move in the beginning? Quite some way? Because if not that is quite an awful start with just the one lux and no fresh water near your capital.
3. Build more cities! You've gone Liberty - great! But you've used only the collective rule settler. here are two more sites to the west next to the minirivers that would make passable cities. Even a cultural win will want at least 3 cities.
4. I see you're building the NC, but in Medina. It usually a good idea to build this in the capital as it usually will end up being the largest city, unless you come across a ridonkulous food site with like 3 wheat or something. Not to mention your capital will almost certainly have more production this early in the game. If you intended to rush NC, it should really have been built by now since currently all it is doing is delaying further expansion.
5. Diplomacy. You've been trading open borders. Instead try selling them open borders for 50g (they'll only offer this to you if they're already friendly). The only time you'll ever want open borders from an AI is when you have a unit you need to cross their territory. This also ties into the other problems but, you only have 5 possible trading partners and nothing to sell them.
In short, your happiness problem is down to having only one luxury and your gold problem is down to having only two cities.
PreLynMax
Your Lord and Master
1) Yeah. I have had a lot a bad luck with my Scouts lately (them being trapped between two barbarians and end up running into another one trying to escape); I can't win for losing when scouting.
2) I make a rule to never, ever move else I will fall further behind early and end up giving up anyway. There is a luxurious bounty of silk to the northeast-- near Napoleon's borders. Not that I'm not used to it, anyway.
3) Ah the damned happiness cap. It prevents me from expanding and locks me away from settling when my civ is unhappy. It prevents me from giving up too early in the game. Unfortunately, I should've used Tradition than Liberty, to help keep them happy. By the time I regain the patience to settle, it's too late.
4) Medina was going to be my *cough* commerce city, so the NC was necessary. Not that I was going to finish this game anyway. There's not enough happiness and not enough income in this civ for me to tolerate anymore of this nonsense. I think I was buiding military or The Great Library in Mecca.
5) Really? 50g for OB? I can't even get the computer to make an even trade, let alone one in my favor. That's not going to happen, even in my wettest dreams. And will Elizabeth do this? Rahammerang? Kahmehameha? Napoleon? Montezuma? I have better odds getting a date, and that's 1 in 7.1 billion. The least I can do is open borders with them.
Don't forget the Aztecs have a UB that doubles the luxury input that's been worked on. It looks like I only have 1 silk, but in reality, I have four.
2) I make a rule to never, ever move else I will fall further behind early and end up giving up anyway. There is a luxurious bounty of silk to the northeast-- near Napoleon's borders. Not that I'm not used to it, anyway.
3) Ah the damned happiness cap. It prevents me from expanding and locks me away from settling when my civ is unhappy. It prevents me from giving up too early in the game. Unfortunately, I should've used Tradition than Liberty, to help keep them happy. By the time I regain the patience to settle, it's too late.
4) Medina was going to be my *cough* commerce city, so the NC was necessary. Not that I was going to finish this game anyway. There's not enough happiness and not enough income in this civ for me to tolerate anymore of this nonsense. I think I was buiding military or The Great Library in Mecca.
5) Really? 50g for OB? I can't even get the computer to make an even trade, let alone one in my favor. That's not going to happen, even in my wettest dreams. And will Elizabeth do this? Rahammerang? Kahmehameha? Napoleon? Montezuma? I have better odds getting a date, and that's 1 in 7.1 billion. The least I can do is open borders with them.
Don't forget the Aztecs have a UB that doubles the luxury input that's been worked on. It looks like I only have 1 silk, but in reality, I have four.
Not sure if your looking at the same save, but in the one you posted you only have one available for trade due to having only the one resource. To be honest its rare to be lumped with a start that bad, it tends to assign double lux at the least and most often a lake or river.
And they will buy OB, anyone whose friendly will give you 50g, or 43g if they're a bit pissed. So everyone in your save except Elizabeth who is neutral, though some of them have bankrupted themselves so they have no gold to give.
And they will buy OB, anyone whose friendly will give you 50g, or 43g if they're a bit pissed. So everyone in your save except Elizabeth who is neutral, though some of them have bankrupted themselves so they have no gold to give.
Actually it isn't necessary to understand much about diplo, at least not below deity. It's quite chaotic in this game anyway. You are usually doing fine diplowise if you know few basic things - don't declare war to civ you have declaration of friendship with and so on. The only thing I've figured about different AI behavior is that Alex and Monty are crazy warmongers and others too but not quite so much. I'm still beating Immortal comfortably.
headcase
Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn
I'm sure that's true if exploit the hell out of the game. Most Prince-level players are what the wrestling community refers to as "smarks".
blitzkrieg1980
Octobrist
I'm not sure I understand this ^^^ post. A prince level player is "a know-it-all" or is "hyper-critical" of civ? I'm not sure I can agree with that. Doesn't this conflict with your first sentence about the proposed 3 difficulties being true only if you exploit the hell out of the game?
headcase
Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn
A Prince player knows the exploits but doesn't use them because the gameplay is more satisfying if you pretend you don't know about the exploits.
Like how a wrestling fan knows that wrestling is fake but acts like it's real, many Prince players know that the AI can be outsmarted with exploits X, Y, and Z but act like those exploits don't exist because it would break the illusion of a good game.
If one were to use those exploits, they would have trouble understanding how anyone would find Prince a challenge.
Guardian PL's post said that only the 3 top difficulties were any challenge. This is only true when using exploits or copying strategies. Watching a Prince level player, you might expect high-level players like this to say "you know you can [exploit AI] and get more gold right?" which I feel is similar (and yeah it's a stretch) to someone telling a smark "You know it's fake, right?"
Like how a wrestling fan knows that wrestling is fake but acts like it's real, many Prince players know that the AI can be outsmarted with exploits X, Y, and Z but act like those exploits don't exist because it would break the illusion of a good game.
If one were to use those exploits, they would have trouble understanding how anyone would find Prince a challenge.
Guardian PL's post said that only the 3 top difficulties were any challenge. This is only true when using exploits or copying strategies. Watching a Prince level player, you might expect high-level players like this to say "you know you can [exploit AI] and get more gold right?" which I feel is similar (and yeah it's a stretch) to someone telling a smark "You know it's fake, right?"
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