The Great Pyramids Rush

[blitzkrieg1980]

Tonight I'm going to start a new game as Industrious/Charismatic leader and I'm going to rush to the Pyramids. I want to know if this is a sound Noble Level tactic (this is assuming that there isn't a crowded landmass with a close rival).

1) Grab masonry (or mining/masonry if my leader doesn't have mining)
a. building warriors and allowing my city to grow
2) Tech Bronzeworking
a. now I'm training a worker to chop forrests
b. if worker pops before Bronzeworking, start building Pyramids
3) Tech Archery (so I can defend my SE civ)
a. build pyramids while chopping like a mad man
4) Beeline to Writing
a. build an archer
b. train a settler
c. train a worker
5) Still Beelining to Writing
a. build archer
b. build axeman

And now, build my libraries and start my massive tech race.

 

[Genv [FP]]

Tonight I'm going to start a new game as Industrious/Charismatic leader and I'm going to rush to the Pyramids. I want to know if this is a sound Noble Level tactic (this is assuming that there isn't a crowded landmass with a close rival).

1) Grab masonry (or mining/masonry if my leader doesn't have mining)
a. building warriors and allowing my city to grow
2) Tech Bronzeworking
a. now I'm training a worker to chop forrests
b. if worker pops before Bronzeworking, start building Pyramids
3) Tech Archery (so I can defend my SE civ)
a. build pyramids while chopping like a mad man
4) Beeline to Writing
a. build an archer
b. train a settler
c. train a worker
5) Still Beelining to Writing
a. build archer
b. build axeman

And now, build my libraries and start my massive tech race.

Just pop a great Engineer. You'll have more forests, and you'll more than likely be able to use those forests for war-mongering.


You're just messing yourself over. Plus your Tatic is wasteful without stone.

 

[The Snug]

Sounds feasible. I've never really tried the Pyramids strategy. I think in just 1 game I was able to get the Pyramids. As long as you run lots of science specialists it should pay dividends in the beginning. It sounds like your civ will remain small (no time for rexing) as Pyramids are quite expensive.

I suppose after you get your Pyramids up, you'll either bonk someone near you to take their cities, or just stay small and maximize your tech lead. I've found that staying small works just fine. In some immortal games I've been able to found only 4 or 5 cities and have been able to keep up in techs.

 

[Kesshi]

blitzkrieg1980,

Will that work on Noble? Sure. Is there a better way to do it? Yes.

Here's what I'd do:

Tech Mining, and Bronze Working right away. Whip a worker, and this is what my tech order at this point would be:

Worker Tech (Hunting/Aggriculture etc)*
Worker Tech
The Wheel
Mysticism
Masonry

Locate a source of Stone early, and get it one way or another. If I can find a city location with a military or commerce resource and Stone in the first ring, I'll settle a new city there. My goal at this point would be to have 3 cities before I started on the Pyramids. One food city for pumping out workers and settlers (usually your Capital), one production city for pumping out a few early wonders and an early military (most likely my military city later on) and your 3rd city should be to occupy a key resource and is probably still just developing at this point, so that city's focus should be on developing that city. Sometimes you can get lucky and find a nice food resource next to Copper or Gems and Stone, which could decrease the number of cities needed.

If I'm Industrious, I usually start the Pyramids later, as they will go up really fast at +200% because of Stone. Add in chopping and the final whip, and you can have the Pyramids up in 10s of turns on even Marathon.

 

[SJN]

Ok, so I'm a crappy player, and I haven't made this work for me in the long run yet on Prince. Nevertheless, I've been able to do it, and it's effective short term:

1. Build warrior while waiting for city to get to size 2
2. Build worker
3. Research BW
4. Get worker/BW at approx same time
5. Chop out a settler
6. Send settler/warrior to previously scouted high-prod or high forest area
6a. if stone OR MARBLE is present, take it
7. Research Masonry
8. While research masonry, get another warrior
9. Chop out a worker at city #2
10. Chop out a settler at city #2
11. Chop out a worker at city #3 (probably need warrior there too)
12. Capital should be building pyramids unless city #2 has more forrests and/or will have more production sooner
13. Have all three workers descend on pyramid building city to chop
14. Other city starts work on Oracle ASAP
15. Research writing
16. Goal is Pyramids and Oracle about the same time

Result: Representation, CoL, and a religion

I can get this as an industrious leader about 75% of the time with stone or marble on prince when playing against 18 civs.

Scouting is important, because you need to know where to drop your cities. Usually, I find I'm very behind on soldiers at the end of this, so you'll have to ramp up military production quickly (cities too, maybe).

-- SJN

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Thnx for the tips all. One thing, getting stone in my games near the start is extremely rare. I'm not sure about you guys, but I have literally had early access to stone maybe twice in the 3 years I've been playing this game. I am not exaggerating at all. If I do see stone within a reasonable distance from my capital, I'll go for it, but honestly, I doubt it will happen.

@sjn
Many many thanks, bro. If we could rep each other, I'da repped u twice right there.

Thnx again all.

 

[SJN]

@blitz

I actually gave useful advice? I'm really happy about that. I don't view myself as a very talented civ IV guy (still stumped at prince...)

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Yeah, well I'm just moving up to Noble in BTS, so you're doing better than me

 

[Kesshi]

1. Build warrior while waiting for city to get to size 2
2. Build worker

SJN,

I've found that I've had greater success by swapping your step one and two here. But only if I have a usable worker tech (or can research a usable worker tech before the worker is finished.) Sure you're never the first to found one of the first religions, but it seems that's not your goal.

 

[SJN]

I see that you're thinking of doing a wonder economy from your other thread. As a side note, I once did a Great Engineer Farm... search for it, it's about a 6 month old thread, I think.

Basically, I built every wonder that produces a great engineer and settled every engineer there and built the ironworks there. It was pretty awesome... I got like 8 great engineers that game (and 9 other great persons from other cities)

-- SJN

 

[Kesshi]

SJN,

Settled Great Engineers are weak, well not weak, but weaker than other prefered Great Persons. I'd rather settle Great Prophets. A settled Great Prophet produces 1 less hammer with the Angkor Wat than a Great Engineer, but a lot of gold. However a Great Engineer's ability to rush is very nice.

For settling, this is how I value my great persons:

Great Prophet
Great Merchant
Great Scientist
Great Engineer
Great Artist
Great Spy

 

[MyOtherName]

These rushes seem very wasteful. You ignore your city development and consume all of your short-term production boosts for the sake of a wonder that doesn't require a race and which won't produce much benefit for a very long time.

And besides, the pyramids are a very expensive wonder -- I'd be very surprised if you aren't actually slowing yourself down by rushing to chop everything: instead you should be developing your city normally so that it produces a lot of hammers per turn, and then chopping to hurry things along.


When I want to build lots of early wonders at higher levels (e.g. Emperor), I usually:
(1) Build a worker
(2) Start improving my land while building military
(3) Build a settler once I have my bonus resources hooked up
(4) Maybe build another worker
(5) Maybe build another settler
(6) Use my highly-developed city to churn out wonders.


The two main points are:
(1) You don't want to stunt the growth of your civilization -- the early terms are very important, don't squander them!

(2) A fully developed city is a powerful thing -- it is quite common for your capital to produce as many hammers as three workers chopping full-time.

 

[J.Rose]

Play as Bizmark. Then pick highlands with no tech tradeing & rageing barbs. Reload until you see stone. I almost always get it right away but at worst 2end or 3rd reload. Build a worker right away at the same time going for Masonary. chop a settler and build the great wall in one city the pyramids in the other. Now the Barbs can't get you and no Civ that survives the barb rush will be near you for about 3000 years. Can't lose. I play on marathon Prince and when you get tanks you can dominate before the year 1920.

 

[harusame]

blitzkrieg1980,

Will that work on Noble? Sure. Is there a better way to do it? Yes.

Here's what I'd do:

Tech Mining, and Bronze Working right away. Whip a worker, and this is what my tech order at this point would be:

Worker Tech (Hunting/Aggriculture etc)*
Worker Tech
The Wheel
Mysticism
Masonry

im completely agree with this

locate a stone nearby, expand, and start building pyramid after then

 

[Julian Delphiki]

SJN,

Settled Great Engineers are weak, well not weak, but weaker than other prefered Great Persons. I'd rather settle Great Prophets. A settled Great Prophet produces 1 less hammer with the Angkor Wat than a Great Engineer, but a lot of gold.

I don't think Angkor Wat affects to Great Prophets, only to priest specialists (+1 hammer).

 

[Kesshi]

I don't think Angkor Wat affects to Great Prophets, only to priest specialists (+1 hammer).

Julian Delphiki,

I just tested this and discovered that I was wrong and you're right! Thanks for catching that.

Settled Great Prophets do NOT receive the +1 hammer bonus from the Angkor Wat.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

@MyOtherName:

I saw what you mean last night when I tried this rush on Noble. I was in danger of being REXed and Carthage had a pretty mighty military. I had to cheat a little bit. I'm Julius Caesar (for imperialistic/organized) and it's my first serious attempt at Noble (standard resources). I didn't have iron and I really needed it for anything good to happen (this is likely because of my bad idea of rushing pyramids). So I used WB to put Iron in one of my mined hills.

Well, because of that, I was able to grab the 'mids and build decent army of praets, took most of Hayana's land and am now incredibly far ahead in techs.

 

[azzaman333]

If you don't have Stone, building the Pyramids is a waste of time.

 

[cripp7]

let another civ build it while yor REX (Rapid EXpansion) then build an army and take it from them.

 

[jackdog]

I don't think pyramids is a waste of time, or if you are industrious unfeasbale even if you don't have stone. I think you need a reason to get it and must exploit it. It is certainly NOT just powerful later on, its the early stages where your happiness cap is higher that it is most usefull. I admit I rarely try and get it these days as on Monarch you will usually be beaten to it but on lower levels its eminently possible, but yes perhaps a bit more city development first.