The Great Wall

[ArmOrAttAk]

The most underrated wonder.
A lot of games I pass this wonder up. When I do build it, expansion becomes so easy. No worry about barbs, build a new city with a tech superior unit to garrison in it 2 squares away from the enemy civ. Even the peaceful enemy civ. Take all their good production squares, by ending a turn with a unit on them >next turn you can grab it. Free walls in every city, and life is easy.
I try to combine it with Pikemen -Phalanx are just a bit too weak. The only worry left are catapults, and the occasional diplomat. You can expand with no worry whatsoever about defense safety, losing a city and a precious tech to the enemy won't be happening. You don't even need to send a defender when founding new cities. When and if you see enemies approach -you can rush buy that first pikeman, no problem.
Combine with Pyramids and you'll have to have a stroke of idiocy to lose.

Well that's my opinion, large maps, diety. Maybe not so great on small maps. The only problem is it expires. So you absolutely have to know when someone starts researching Metallurgy.

Here's a .sav of a game I built it as my second wonder.

 

[funxus]

I know it's a good wonder, but I usually don't war that much early in the game. I often have a hard time trying to get all the other wonders, which I think are more important. Pyramids and colossus at that time. It all depends on your own strategy

 

[SomeGuyNamedRob]

Originally posted by funxus
I know it's a good wonder, but I usually don't war that much early in the game. I often have a hard time trying to get all the other wonders, which I think are more important. Pyramids and colossus at that time. It all depends on your own strategy

The way you approach your conquest really determines what's important to go for, especially early on.

 

[sethos]

It's a wonder I usually dont' build. A diplo every 4th city will do the same. I save the camels/shields for a wonder of much more importance, MPE or LH or Leonardo's or Mike's.

 

[Ace]

I usually do not build the GW either. If its available, and I have spare production, I will get it, but its not on the preferred list.

The really bad thing about the GW is that it disappears just when you really do need it. Then it becomes a scramble to build city walls in hot spots.

:tank:

 

[Old n Slow]

The Great Wall is nice, but...

In my current GOTM, I didn’t build it & have only built two walls in 40 cities (one was a recent acquisition on a front & I had a spare $$8K+ available; now I’m thinking of selling those walls cause I’m a bit short of funds).

In my early forays into King & Emperor, the GW was a terrific boon; on those large continents with 2+ fronts & too few resources, the GW really shines. I think the value of this wonder relative to the other early wonders is a function of the layout of the neighbors. If they are too close & not so friendly, then this one is a must (just as LH is a must when starting on a small island far from visible land).

 

[Ace]

Originally posted by Old n Slow
The Great Wall is nice, but...

In my current GOTM, I didn’t build it & have only built two walls in 40 cities (one was a recent acquisition on a front & I had a spare $$8K+ available; now I’m thinking of selling those walls cause I’m a bit short of funds).

Oops, I forgot to mention that my favorite reason for building city walls as opposed to the GW, is that when/if a cash shortage arises, the walls can always be sold for coins. Also, on the other hand, GW does double your combat strength against Barbs.

 

[Kev]

Ancient wonders in a Deity game (with max civs) is a tricky situation. Sure, it'd be great to have 5 or 6 of 'em, but realistically it's probably rare to even grab 3 of them - unless you start each city RIGHT AWAY on wonders. In that case, you're probably going to lose out on some things along the way and find you have different problems.

Again, these are the ancient ones I'm talking about.

So if I can build 3, which ones? Colossus for the SSC and Hanging Gardens for the early happiness are probably tantamount for me on Deity. For the third, probably the Pyramids or Marco Polo's (if you consider that one an ancient wonder). Chances are, however, I'm getting the Colossus, the HG and running with it - concentrating on things like Mike's Chapel, Leo's, Cope's, Bach's and Newton's in the relative near-future.

The Great Wall has its pluses - so does the Lighthouse. Another item about the Great Wall that was not mentioned is the fact that you can have more control in forcing enemies to stop warring or keeping them from declaring. Of course, this could also interfere a bit as well if you are trying to goad the AI into war (while keeping your own reputation spotless).

In general, however, at Deity level the push for me is science, trade and happiness. To this end, I'll forego the shields needed for the GW and put them into more settlers, caravans, and diplomats. A few mobile units along with some dips is usually a very viable strategy for dealing with barbs and often times the AI as well. Getting more out of your trade and science will put better units on the field in any case - and will make the GW obsolete ASAP as well.

Of course, what a pain if you end up sharing a land mass with the AI that was lucky enough to cascade into the Great Wall wonder. THAT can be ugly.

 

[Marlos]

Originally posted by Kev
Of course, what a pain if you end up sharing a land mass with the AI that was lucky enough to cascade into the Great Wall wonder. THAT can be ugly.

My thought exactly! The only time that I build the GW is if my neighbor or my target civ is about to get it! If this thread had been a poll, I would have voted to save the production for Pyramids or another WOTW (it depends upon the level and circumstances )

 

[starlifter]

Kev has said what I also prioritize in most of my games.

So I'll just say that the GW is nice, but it is a pain to fight offensively with. It's nice for a defensive game, but warring in a Republic is likely to slow conquest due to peace offers. The diversion of shields at higher difficulty levels will usually require giving up something like Colossus or Pyramids or HG, or even Copernicus. I would probably even take Oracle over GW, and just delay Theology research a bit.

But I agree that you are pretty darned secure with the GW, esp. from Sea Barbs. GW means extrememly aggreessive expansion, and minimla defensive land development

 

[KingWilly]

I agree with most people here. GW is nice to have, but not a necessity. On lower levels, you may as well get it, because you will be able to get all or most WOTW, but as the levels get more difficult, it is necessary to choose which WOTW you need and which would be "nice to have".

 

[Sodak]

It's of secondary importance to me. It's good to have so that no AI civ has it. Otherwise, I like the sellable walls. I usually send defenders out to defend new city spots, barbarians are rarely more than a bother.

 

[ArmOrAttAk]

no no no you're not understanding me.

Go and capture a city in the heart of your enemies land
<Pouf>city walls for your defending pleasure.

Not wanna be at war with the civ?
<Pouf>Though we dream of seeing your civilization in ruins WE HAVE NO CHOICE but to offer a ceasefire.

Sometimes the AI lets you take there cities just so they can take them right back and steal your latest military tech.
<Pouf>not this time

Works well with Sun Tzu's War Academy too.

I'm just playing devils advocate here, I rarely build it myself. Sometimes I get a great start and have the opportunity to build it, when that happens the game is over.

This board is getting few posts so make a thread about something, anything people!

Stay tuned for my next thread> The Great Library <maybe within the month

 

[Marlos]

Originally posted by ArmOrAttAk
<Pouf>

You must be a Bugs Bunny fan! "Nice trick, Merl old girl!"

 

[ArmOrAttAk]

Bugs Bunny is the greatest, but I was referring to <pouf>construction complete

 

[MajorGeneral2]

The Great wall in no way hinders offensive tactics. Remember, you don't HAVE to take a cease fire. I'd say it's one of the most useful WoW.

 

[Ace]

Originally posted by MajorGeneral2
The Great wall in no way hinders offensive tactics. Remember, you don't HAVE to take a cease fire. I'd say it's one of the most useful WoW.

Except in Republic or Democracy when the slimy senate overrules you 9 times out of 10 and agrees to the cease fire and even goes beyond that and signs a peace treaty! I cannot tell you how many times the AI has pulled that little trick on me, even with a spotless reputation. The AI just loves to hammer one of your units or even a harmless caravan and just as you are about to annilihate it, poof, it offers a cease fire and the senate agrees to it.

Which is the main reason I like to switch to communism or fundy to wage a guick war.

:tank: :tank:

PS: bet you cannot guess my pet peeve with this game?

 

[funxus]

and even goes beyond that and signs a peace treaty

If your enemy decides they don't want war in democracy, or Republic, make sure you get a peacetreaty. Cease-fires are worthless, since you can't ask them to leave your territory, or demand tribute.

 

[starlifter]

As everyone who has built and actually relied on the GW knows, you "dread" the day when it goes away.... Metallurgy. M is a key advance, and the AI prioritizes it highly. If the game is close, one often must drop other projects and build/rush buy walls in those cities where you are really relying on walls.

So an "advantage" to not having the GW, is one can blow right on thru Metallurgy without hesitation. This is an advantage, at least for me personally, because at that point in the game I'm normally trying to ramp up science to one every 2 or 3 turns, and move right into one advance per turn through Steam Engine, Electricity, Refrigeration, Fundy, Tactics, etc..... leaving the last advance, RR, as teh final unresearched tech.... this is because of the big trade advantage (see other trade threads for the reasons and methods).

With research at 1 every day or 2 at Deity, it means I have neither the gold nor the shields to spare for wallls.... if I did, the acceleration of science would take a beating. So indirectly, no GW can actually "boost" mid-game science (well, more like not interfere with it)... in certain strategies. .

EDIT: Typos.

 

[LordValuna]

Originally posted by starlifter
As everyone who has built and actually relied on the GW knows, you "dread" the day when it goes away.... Metallurgy. M is a key advance, and the AI prioritizes it highly. If the game is close, one often must drop other projects and build/rush buy walls in those cities where you are really relying on walls.

So an "advantage" to not having the GW, is one can blow right on thru Metallurgy without hesitation.

EDIT: Typos.

Yes, the dread of having a wonder expire with unfortunate timing. For example your citizens will really love you when the AIs make Hanging Gardens an Oracle expire close together

I would say that GW does not fall in this category, as most people dont build many city walls anyways. However if the site demands a city wall, just build it early even though it duplicates your wonder. It requires no upkeep, and can serve as an EMERGENCY cash reserve.

The ability to force a cease fire alone should put it up there with the UN.

However, GW has another advantage, you fight better against BARBARIANS when holding. I would think its important at least to keep GW away from the AI's so that one of them doesnt demolish all the Barbarians