the great wall?

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Feb 11, 2019
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I am playing as China atm and I can build the great wall. Can someone explain how this works? It has to be built on the borders of a city, although my borders will expand. How does this work? Also, if a tile has a great wall segment, it removes it normal yields, yes? I see no benefit of building it to be honest...
 
It would be useful when the border was fixed, such as when it met the border of another Civilization. It provides Gold and Culture bonuses in addition to Defense Strength bonus.

Here's an example (from Reddit):

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As with most improvements, the basic yields of the tile remain the same. If your borders expand the wall will stay in place and give its yields. It is a great improvement for mid/lategame culture and gold generation.
 
I see no benefit of building it to be honest...

Gold, culture and later on tourism. You can only build it on the edge but once build it stays regardless of further border expansion.
Most people find it rather useless, personally I find it fun to build. It's just not really a wall, mainly a future tourism thing.
I use a mod that allows it to be build on tiles with forests and jungles.
 
Ok so its a good mid-late game improvement. But at that time my borders already expanded into the ocean... as I am settling in indo-china and india.
Is it on the other hand valid to use “dead” tiles for the improvement? Tiles you cant work on the 4th and 5th ring to generate culture late game
 
I like building GW around volcanos to get extremely impressive yields
 
You cannot join wall in circles, place on resources or flood plains. Must be on your outside tile.
Walls are much better now and give great yields at castles.
There is a nack to using them and not over using them, I’ll drop a line in pre-castles for the gold in a fat city ... and China is a grassland start normally.
 
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Don't underestimate the potential yields from long segments of wall, you can get massive culture and gold yields. Here's a bit of Great Wall porn. Admittedly I think I used a mod in this game which added another culture if I had Marble in my territory, but still goes to show how you can get some pretty amazing yields. Notice also I build St. Basils in Chengdu for stacked effect.
Spoiler :
upload_2020-2-25_0-9-33.png

upload_2020-2-25_0-10-0.png
 
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Gold, culture and later on tourism. You can only build it on the edge but once build it stays regardless of further border expansion.
Most people find it rather useless, personally I find it fun to build. It's just not really a wall, mainly a future tourism thing.
Right. There's the rub. Just another ubiquitous tourism-generating UI like you see with so many civ's geared towards CV (Egypt, Canada, France, India, Persia), useless as a defensive UI. FXS actually has a tutorial video where they try to teach a newb how to value a civ, and they position China as a civ with a strong defensive bent thanks to the wall.

Could be so much cooler.
 
useless as a defensive UI
... it gives +6 combat strength to an archer, not to be sniffed at.
And no, since the UI culture buff build a 4 long wall with a builder and get 8 culture as well a 12 gold ...which is not tourism.
Yes it could be cooler but it’s good enough for me
 
Yes it could be cooler but it’s good enough for me
It's good enough as it is in terms of yields, after it got buffed ... but I agree with steveg700 that it's very much a wasted opportunity in terms of cool and innovative things they could have done with it. The whole mechanism seems to be there in the game to make it work as an actual wall with health and movement limitation, similar to how the encampments work.
 
... it gives +6 combat strength to an archer, not to be sniffed at.

If you build a wall over several tiles you would need to put a unit on every tile else enemy units can move on to it and also gain the defensive bonus. China build that wall to keep out marauding Mongols, not to increase their culture or gold. Hell, the wall would have cost a ton in maintenance.
 
you would need to put a unit on every tile else enemy units can move on to it and also gain the defensive bonus
Very rarely have I used an early one for a defensive bonus. When I have it has been to very good effect. You do not spam early walls next to a neighbour in the game. Yes the wall is not used as it should be, but we are talking about the game right?
China build that wall to keep out marauding Mongols, not to increase their culture or gold.
And yet it did not keep them out and has increased their culture and gold.

I agree the wall is not exactly mimicking real life but all I was doing was defending the game mechanic from steveg who said it was "a ubiquitous tourism-generating UI" while it is so much more... as whacker said "It is a great improvement for mid/lategame culture and gold generation"
You do not spam it at the beginning with those precious few builder charges you have then.
 
Like I said earlier: I like building them for fun and I agree they are worthwhile to build. I just like previous versions that had a proper defensive function more. Like civ4 where they kept out barbarians.
 
The improvement isn’t worthless as a defense either... you just have to staff it. If you can fortify units along a length of wall with a narrow border into your own territory, it can be a pain to break through. It’s not automatic, and doesn’t scale well with border size, but it’s far from useless.
 
... it gives +6 combat strength to an archer, not to be sniffed at.
And no, since the UI culture buff build a 4 long wall with a builder and get 8 culture as well a 12 gold ...which is not tourism.
Yes it could be cooler but it’s good enough for me
Bonus gold does not make the Great Wall seem particularly compelling or unique. How could it? Gold is the yield the devs clearly feel the most comfortable showering the players with, so it gets used as a "filler" yield. I mean, where is the thematic connection here? How did building a big wall to keep out barbarians generate income? Slapping on bonus gold is routine for that whole sub-category of "gets-boosts-after-Flight" UI's, so in that respect it goes hand-in-hand with tourism AFAIC.

The wall acts as a fort, but if you're playing China, your early game is focused on producing wonders and, by extension, builders, right? That's in addition to the customary acts of laying out districts. What China needs from the wall is to give the player some relief from having to build a defensive army. Instead, it's sucking charges out of builders--requiring multiple charges to get the benefits of the chaining effect--and then the player is still having to produce units to man the walls. And it's sucking up space where a player should be dropping wonders, districts, and even basic stuff like mines (to say nothing of charges-for-chops).

So, it winds up being sufficiently low in utility (and therefore priority) that it's generally not really something to build in the early game unless you're feeling indulgent. It's something players should wait to build in the late game when their borders have expanded, builders can be churned out easily, and Flight is at hand.

A simple change to give the Great Wall be genuinely unique and provide early-game utility would be to have the UI be impassable terrain for barbarians. As for its culture/tourism benefits, those should actually accrue over eras, making it enticing to build them as early as possible. In general, such design would be a welcome way to ramp culture/tourism yields, at least for civ's with a footprint in antiquity.

The improvement isn’t worthless as a defense either... you just have to staff it. If you can fortify units along a length of wall with a narrow border into your own territory, it can be a pain to break through. It’s not automatic, and doesn’t scale well with border size, but it’s far from useless.
A similar argument can be made for forts, yet in practice forts occupy a very low priority. Something far-from-worthless that a player isn't enticed to actually avail themselves of is effectively as worthless as something genuinely worthless. Feel me?
 
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Forts are only good if you play Poland :)

Building the wall on (flat) desert tiles was worthwhile though. Those tiles would have been useless. Imaging having Petra as China in the desert! You could end up having 18 yield tiles or something
 
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