Windmills are far better than mines, unless production really sucks. I prefer cottages on grasslands without rivers and farms next to rivers (maximum bonus from golden ages). Again if production is lacking I might build a lumbermill or watermill or even a workshop; usually not. Lumbermills are usually build in such places were they give +1 commerce; and naturally tundra.
The Greatest City: Finals
- Thread starter Llama231
- Start date
It pretty much depends on the city's surrounding tiles and what cities you need. That said, RFC allows better for hybrid cities than vanilla BtS does, with all those food ressources around.
But as a general principle: cottages for a commerce city (it shouldn't have more than a few minable hills to be a decent commerce city, so there's no point in thinking about windmills), farms + mines for a production city (unless you add State Property to the mix). I almost never build watermills, and lumbermills only on plains forests and forested hills on a river (same production, but +1 commerce).
But as a general principle: cottages for a commerce city (it shouldn't have more than a few minable hills to be a decent commerce city, so there's no point in thinking about windmills), farms + mines for a production city (unless you add State Property to the mix). I almost never build watermills, and lumbermills only on plains forests and forested hills on a river (same production, but +1 commerce).
Yes some cities should focuse on commerce and some on production, but I usually specialise only the best possible cities.
Watermill is probably the most unpopular improvement for me too. Although, chopping the forested hill and digging a mine into it also gives +1 commerce. So it gives the same values.
Watermill is probably the most unpopular improvement for me too. Although, chopping the forested hill and digging a mine into it also gives +1 commerce. So it gives the same values.
resource improvement>cottages>windmills>lumbermills>watermills>mines>farms>workshops
KMRblue1027
Deity
I've always tried to get big cities with lots of production so I mine every hill that's not desert, build watermills out the ass, farm a lot, and never build cottages. All my research comes from Representation + mercantilism (Which in regular BTS I get the Pyramids so I get rep. super early.)
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
If I know a resource is going to appear in a tile, I mine/farm/windmill/watermill it (so that when the resource appears, my population will continue to grow but my production stays the same) but never cottage it.
E.g. the coal near Amsterdam.
E.g. the coal near Amsterdam.
MessageMan
Prince
- Joined
- May 9, 2010
- Messages
- 346
It's just that I don't get the same production out of Budapest as everybody else seems to. I usually lumbermill the forests and mine the hills and cottage everything else and I only get around 19 pop and 100+ production, which isn't anything special.
Jarlaxe Baenre
Emperor
Lumbermills, mines, watermills, workshops, and state property is how you can get a lot of production. With 1-2 GEs, a forge, ironworks, SoL +1 specialist as an engineer, you can get a lot.
blizzrd
Micromanager
Here is what I get out of Budapest:
Spoiler :
Nobody has mentioned Anielowka though, which is clearly a good city location in its own right:
Spoiler :
Jarlaxe Baenre
Emperor
No wonder you get so little out of budapest. Mine ALL the hills, watermill ALL the riverside tiles, workshop ALL the non-riverside flat tiles. Unless they have resources. State Property for the food bonus from workshops and watermills.
MessageMan
Prince
- Joined
- May 9, 2010
- Messages
- 346
Why would you watermill the riverside tiles when you can lumbermill them?
blizzrd
Micromanager
I would rather use corporations, so no to State Property. I'm getting +7 food and +13 hammers currently.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
Lumbermills are better than watermills because you get an extra hammer with railroads, and they give you better health. If the rivered tile doesn't have a forest, then I watermill it.
Anielowka just misses the river, explaining its low hammer count and lack of commerce/health initially until you hook it up to your network with a road. And that's why I still found Kiev for Russia (Anielowka is called something else, starting with a Z, I think), even though I can get more territory if I move my initially settler west of it.
Yay, Denver made it ahead!
Anielowka just misses the river, explaining its low hammer count and lack of commerce/health initially until you hook it up to your network with a road. And that's why I still found Kiev for Russia (Anielowka is called something else, starting with a Z, I think), even though I can get more territory if I move my initially settler west of it.
Yay, Denver made it ahead!
Jarlaxe Baenre
Emperor
Lumbermills are better than watermills because you get an extra hammer with railroads, and they give you better health. If the rivered tile doesn't have a forest, then I watermill it.
Anielowka just misses the river, explaining its low hammer count and lack of commerce/health initially until you hook it up to your network with a road. And that's why I still found Kiev for Russia (Anielowka is called something else, starting with a Z, I think), even though I can get more territory if I move my initially settler west of it.
Yay, Denver made it ahead!
I don't see how Denver is useful unless you are the Aztecs (Produce Research), America (produce SoL, Pentagon, and UN), or France (Produce Notre Dame, SoL, whateverthethirdoneis)
blizzrd
Micromanager
In my current German game (from which the screenshots of Budapest and Aneilowka came in my recent post above) I have Denver as one of my 10 cities:
Frankfurt
Danzig
Budapest
Anielowka
Constantinople
Athens
Rome
Denver
Chicago
New Orleans
I completed the tech tree just before 1800AD using these cities and Denver's production was a key player in this.
You don't seem to like expanding eastwards. Isn't Reval worth it for commerce purposes? Anielowka would have to be moved one tile east, but Kiev is also great and has river access. Both of them are a great help in containing Russia.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
Just another thought about best cities not being on the coast: the theoretical RFC best city should have:
1. 1 tile of coast (for lighthouse, custom house-->better commerce) that borders your city
2. No mountains
3. all tiles have fresh water (levee)
4. as many resources as possible (preferably on a floodplain hill that can be mined)
5. culturally neutral (i.e. you don't have to go razing cities and vassalizing other civs to get your tiles working)
1. 1 tile of coast (for lighthouse, custom house-->better commerce) that borders your city
2. No mountains
3. all tiles have fresh water (levee)
4. as many resources as possible (preferably on a floodplain hill that can be mined)
5. culturally neutral (i.e. you don't have to go razing cities and vassalizing other civs to get your tiles working)
