The Incredible Cheapness of Defeated Civs Randomly Respawning

[townknave]

So here's the scenario: While attempting the ridiculously impossible Ethiopian UHV, I am lucky enough to have an Egyptian city close my capital in the beginning. It flips to me, Egypt declares war, I get free troops, and I take all their cities. I manage to found Islam, then beat back centuries of powerful barb camel archers to defend Egypt, solidifying control over the country.

Fast forward to 1670. All my Egyptian cities are happy, healthy, and prosperous, and have been so for centuries. I am working on clearing South Africa of the English and Dutch, and have just taken the last English colony, with one Dutch one left to take. A sizable force of Oromo Warriors is in Zimbabwe, en route to the Dutch colony. The always inscrutable stability meter reads unstable, but I have three stars in every area but economy and am running Commonwealth to neutralize that.

I hit enter and it's 1675. Egypt declares independence, completely out of nowhere. Fine, I let the cities go. But what's this? All my other cities have declared independence! All my troops have disappeared into thin air! And the English colony I took has flipped back to them!??!?!?

This is so completely unfair and arbitrary. Why should cities that I've held prosperously for centuries, converted to my religion, and bred into being 100% Ethiopian ethniticity just magically up and flip to a Civilization that's been dead for a millennium? It'd make sense if Egypt had just collapsed and gone indy, but this is ridiculous. It'd be like if Idaho, Wyoming, and and Colorado "flipped" today and suddenly became cities of a rising Native American empire.

What's more, is it really necessary that this makes all of my troops disappear and all of my cities declare independence? As best I can understand of this ridiculously Byzantine stability system (and yes I have read the guide on the wiki), my Empire was not in danger of collapsing. Can anyone explain this to me?

 

[botur2young]

How did you manage to get Islam?

 

[Rhye]

can you post a map?

 

[onedreamer]

I hit enter and it's 1675. Egypt declares independence, completely out of nowhere. Fine, I let the cities go. But what's this? All my other cities have declared independence! All my troops have disappeared into thin air! And the English colony I took has flipped back to them!??!?!?

They are 2 different events although probably connected: you got Egypt indipendence (it always happens sooner or later, so... *shrug*) and then Civil War (you should have got a message about it). Probably Egypt was very good for your economy and losing it was the last drop that caused collapse. Remember that Commonwealth only neutralizes certain aspects of a bad economy, not all.

 

[LuKo]

How did you manage to get Islam?

I guess it was thanks to early conquered Egypt and Great Prophets.

 

[Ementio]

Something similar happened to me when I was playing the Dutch. I had been playing a game for about a week, had taken over all of North America, most of South America, half of Africa, the Vikings, Spanish and a few other Civs. I had been paying attention to the economy and not letting it slide. Suddenly, centuries after conquering the Aztecs (who provided me with some of the most powerful cities), they up and revolted. Well, that got me pissed so I attacked and defeated them. Then I hit enter, and there was a suspiciously long wait before the next turn began. Then--what the #!*&$!?, EVERY single city in my civilization except Amsterdam suddenly went independent.

Come on, there should be some warning. This type of thing, plus the huge waits between turns, has turned me off to the Rhye's mod, though I must say it has its good points too.

 

[Corm]

If your unstable/shaky though its meant to happen. The warning is when your little line goes from being straight to looking like a wee hill.

A suggestion was made to me in the Ethiopia thread which has sort of worked for me (its not 1910 yet so im awaiting an invasion) which was to settle a city in SA and use a GA to culture bomb it.

 

[donovan515]

I think it's when someone discovers Nationalism old civilizations revolt. I was playing Japan, discovered it and bam all 6 Chinese cities revolted. Luckily they didn't take my garrisons and I just reconquered them.

 

[jgbaxter]

Never let a city go, standing orders are shoot the . .. .. .. .ers in the head if they mouth off.

 

[Ryry]

Shouldn't have had Commonwealth IMHO.

I had the exact same start. I too had the Egyptians revolt. But the rest of the empire stayed together and I took the Egyptian cities back. And they are a HUGE part of the economy. Now it is 1932 and I basically own Africa.

Oh, and I build courthouses in every city.

Ryry

 

[Rhye]

Then I hit enter, and there was a suspiciously long wait before the next turn began. Then--what the #!*&$!?, EVERY single city in my civilization except Amsterdam suddenly went independent.

Come on, there should be some warning. This type of thing, plus the huge waits between turns, has turned me off to the Rhye's mod, though I must say it has its good points too.

You ARE warned. You were in a "Collapsing" state

 

[monolith94]

What's the quickest and easiest way to slap some stability on? Sort of like duct-taping your empire?

 

[Corm]

Occupation and taking enemy cities.

 

[monolith94]

If I'm running viceyoralty though, which gives +4 per capital city, would it be worth the loss of the 12 stability points I'm getting through that? I'd have to take 12 cities to make up for the loss or would it only be 6?

 

[Corm]

Does it? I thought it was + per Vassal state?

 

[onedreamer]

6 cities. Of course if you have vassals Viceroyality is quite better. Do you also have Vassalage ?

 

[Luatha]

I don't think this is cheap at all. I like seeing for instance Germany, India, China going from independent/conquered cities back to being in the game. They always seem to descend into civil war and then come back later. Haven't done much in Africa, but I've had the Inca (while playing Spain) rise up in a similar manner. Good thing Conquistadors are gods in the New World.

Also, descending into civil war yourself doesn't mean you've lost. Virtually every country has had a civil war at some point in its history. In my most recent game, I decided to experiment and pulled almost all my troops to the capital before letting civil war occur - I easily took back almost everything.

 

[das]

Indeed. As for Egypt's long-extinct civilisation, it was pretty extinct in OTL too; didn't prevent later "Egyptian" nations from rising every now and then.

Those things could be quite annoying, I agree, but usually the rebel civilisations aren't all that tough (also, I'm pretty sure your units aren't supposed to be destroyed by it; instead they are placed just outside the new borders - so perhaps the best precaution in the event of likely rebellions is to place a fair amount of strong mounted units in the cities and use them to counterattack as soon as possible).

I like seeing for instance Germany, India, China going from independent/conquered cities back to being in the game.

Indeed; IMHO one of the best things about RFC is its dynamicity, with new civilisations being able to arise. Some of them do quite well, too; I recall India - which only emerged from the Arabic and Khmer yokes in the 18th century - climb to second place and nearly beat me to Alpha Centauri. That was great fun.

 

[The Q-Meister]

If I'm running viceyoralty though, which gives +4 per capital city, would it be worth the loss of the 12 stability points I'm getting through that? I'd have to take 12 cities to make up for the loss or would it only be 6?

I never thought that really worked and I would like to hear about this if the vice royalty system does actually work for people.

In a game as Japan, I had 4 capital cities or starting points: Chinese, Mongolian, Aztec Incan. I had 5 if you include my own Japanese starting point but I'm not sure if you're own is counted.

OK, so 4 starting points doing the math that's +16 stability points. But I never felt at any time that I was getting that bonus. As soon as I conquered Mongolia I went on Unstable then as my caravel was exploring the Pacific I had the 2 conquistador events which game me a good army so decided to put it to good use and take the 2 American capitals. Supposedly that's +8 stability points but I remained on Unstable...at no point did I feel this was doing anything for me.

On stability in Bts, playing a game as Greece right now where I have 3 stars in everything yet am "Shaky." I've read the wiki more than once and many articles on stability and I still don't completely get it. I love the concept of it but it is truly difficult to master.

 

[The Q-Meister]

Does it? I thought it was + per Vassal state?

Vanilla it's per starting point, Warlords and BtS per vassal.