The logic of Bronze and Iron.

[Darwin At Work]

With the 1.09 patch, horses now appear due to learning "Animal Husbandry" although you can't do much with them until you learn "Horseback Riding." This makes sense... you have a resource and THEN you learn how to use it.

As such, why is it you learn how to make bronze and iron weaponry BEFORE the actual resource has appeared? This doesn't make any sense as you would need a source of bronze before you could learn how to craft axes and armor out of it. The same goes with Iron.

My proposal is a slight modification that would make "Mining" reveal bronze, and maybe have "Bronze Working" reveal Iron... A common problem I run into is spending a bunch of time learning "Mining" and "Bronze Working" only to not have any bronze appear anywhere close to me... then I have to crunch and research "Iron Working" to get my early military going.

I lack the skills to do this myself... it might not even be good for the games mechanics. I dunno...

 

[DSChapin]

I've done exactly that in my own mod, and it doesn't seem to mess with game balance particularly.
It's an easy fix: just go into CIV3BonusInfos.xml (in Assets/XML/Terrain), and check Tech_Reveal for the appropriate resources.

 

[Naokaukodem]

You do not have to find a ressource before being able to use it. In reality, you know every ressources but just don't use it. So "discovering" a ressource in the same time you discover how to use it is logical. This to prevent to link to a ressource too ealry, finding no way to use it. In reality, you will not make a road to Stone when you have no use to it, even if there may be a use later. As simple as that.

I've done exactly that in my own mod, and it doesn't seem to mess with game balance particularly.
It's an easy fix: just go into CIV3BonusInfos.xml (in Assets/XML/Terrain), and check Tech_Reveal for the appropriate resources.

You guys are doing many silly things in your mods... Bah, as long as you have fun doing so.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

With the 1.09 patch, horses now appear due to learning "Animal Husbandry" although you can't do much with them until you learn "Horseback Riding." This makes sense... you have a resource and THEN you learn how to use it.

As such, why is it you learn how to make bronze and iron weaponry BEFORE the actual resource has appeared? This doesn't make any sense as you would need a source of bronze before you could learn how to craft axes and armor out of it. The same goes with Iron.

My proposal is a slight modification that would make "Mining" reveal bronze, and maybe have "Bronze Working" reveal Iron... A common problem I run into is spending a bunch of time learning "Mining" and "Bronze Working" only to not have any bronze appear anywhere close to me... then I have to crunch and research "Iron Working" to get my early military going.

I lack the skills to do this myself... it might not even be good for the games mechanics. I dunno...

Actually you can use horses as soon as you discover AH. If you have the wheel you can immediately start building chariots.

 

[Zurai]

As such, why is it you learn how to make bronze and iron weaponry BEFORE the actual resource has appeared? This doesn't make any sense as you would need a source of bronze before you could learn how to craft axes and armor out of it. The same goes with Iron.

The reasoning is that you can do research with trace amounts of a resource - one horse or a very shallow copper vein, for example - but you need a vast supply to actually make enough for general use. The resources on the map represent the vast supply; research represents finding and poking at the trace amounts.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

My idea-if it is possible-is to have Copper appear with Mining (and possibly Iron too), and then tie the research rates of Bronze Working, Iron Working and Metal Casting to having access to these resources. Same with Horses and Horseback riding.
Oh, and it makes perfect historical sense that AH should allow players to build chariots (if they have the wheel). After all, there is a big difference between merely harnessing a horse to a wheeled chariot, and actually knowing how to control a horse whilst you are on its back!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Reveilled]

The reasoning is that you can do research with trace amounts of a resource - one horse or a very shallow copper vein, for example - but you need a vast supply to actually make enough for general use. The resources on the map represent the vast supply; research represents finding and poking at the trace amounts.

The problem here comes if you're in a situation like that of the native americans. If the real world were Civ IV, the pre-colombian american civs would be able to research horseback riding in the absence of a single horse anywhere on their continent.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Thats why I think my idea might work very well. If you don't have any horses-via trade or directly-then it may take almost TWICE as long to study horseback riding, causing some people to simply abandon it until later in the game. Instead, this player might focus on creating Swordsmen and Macemen because he has a ready supply of iron, and so can quickly research iron working and metal casting.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Reveilled]

Thats why I think my idea might work very well. If you don't have any horses-via trade or directly-then it may take almost TWICE as long to study horseback riding, causing some people to simply abandon it until later in the game. Instead, this player might focus on creating Swordsmen and Macemen because he has a ready supply of iron, and so can quickly research iron working and metal casting.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Should you even be able to study Horseback Riding if neither you nor anybody you've had contact with has Horses?

Would it be possible to make it impossible to research these technolgies unless the Civ knew of the existence of a source of the resource?

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Well, this is the bit where you can probably say 'its just a game' . After all, if a tech is ridiculously expensive AND it is clear there is no current point in researching it, then I will research something else every time-but some people don't like to be 'pigeon-holed' in their games.
If you wanted to look at it in 'real-world' terms though, think of it as them learning to ride something else (like the Arabs learning how to ride camels to get 'Camel Archers'.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Suki]

If you wanted to look at it in 'real-world' terms though, think of it as them learning to ride something else (like the Arabs learning how to ride camels to get 'Camel Archers'.

or lappish reindeer charriots, which would hopefully get a bonus in snow, which would buite useful in an iceage map, maybe the reindeer would be more in demand than hourses.. similarly camels should get a desert bonus and elephants a jungle bonus...
to keep them from being built in odd places you could have them require the apropriate terrain type in the city radius..
you could make a series of units for each type.
you could also have them all disguised as 'game' resources until you figure out you can ride them...