The many problems with Modern era

Depends on the players I guess. Civ players seem to dread nothing more than a dynamic evolution of the political map and a game in which you lose territory or cities. People that play Europa Universalis should be more used to losing things – even though independent colonies have become very rare in that game. But people that play the Crusader Kings franchise should be very accustomed to losing all kinds of things a few times during the game: territory, troops, power, titles, skills, abilities. The up and down (and preparing against the down being too bad) is generally seen as a big part of the fun in that game.

I think if there is a way to interact with a potential independence beforehand – e.g., events in which you can choose between more yields in DL vs. giving them more autonomy (= less yields for you) or sending gold and/or troops to appease, declaring a city a DL-specific capital – this would give you a choice: try to keep the DL integrated but for a price or fight them to reintegrate them after they declared independence. Hopefully, this would also not feel too scripted if done well, as potential triggers/weights could depend on a myriad of factors: population in DL vs. homeland, amount of treasure fleet points in previous age, troops built in DL, DL culture or gold output, number of resources, number of cities vs. towns in DL, distance between HL and DL...
This direction is interesting and I thought about it too. Having choice between keeping colonies while losing some benefits, or freeing them as allied states could be fun. But to make it really interesting, I think those mechanics need a lot of things to add - like rebels if you keep large empire or proxy wars where you could participate without going at war with other full civilizations.

P.S. If we ever get 4th age for Civ7, I expect something like this there. Decolonization and proxy wars are strong themes for post WWII world and ages are perfect for implementing mechanics with short time frame.
 
This direction is interesting and I thought about it too. Having choice between keeping colonies while losing some benefits, or freeing them as allied states could be fun. But to make it really interesting, I think those mechanics need a lot of things to add - like rebels if you keep large empire or proxy wars where you could participate without going at war with other full civilizations.

P.S. If we ever get 4th age for Civ7, I expect something like this there. Decolonization and proxy wars are strong themes for post WWII world and ages are perfect for implementing mechanics with short time frame.
Not sure independent colonies need to be allied. I would expect a declaration of independence that leads to a war, and if the former overlord is not able to take back the new capital within a given number of turns (20?), the former colony will become a full player. It receives a random leader, keeps the duplicate civ, and does its own diplomacy – which can be an immediate alliance, maybe depending how you react on the declaration of independence.
 
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Not sure independent colonies need to be allied. I would expect a declaration of independence that leads to a war, and if the former overlord is not able to take back the new capital within a given number of turns (20?), the former colony will become a full player. It receives a random leader, keeps the duplicate civ, and does its own diplomacy – which can be an immediate alliance, maybe depending how you react on the declaration of independence.

The problem with colony mechanics like that is that it would severely discourage late settling in the exploration. Like my last game, I settled 2 cities near the end of the era, because I wanted to get something in that space to claim any modern resources. If there was a chance they would break away, I wouldn't have settled there.

I do think there could be some options, though. I think for curiosity and roleplay, I'd love an option where basically I could fork off my old world empire into a separate civ, and establish a completely new empire in the New World. Maybe it could be an alternate dark age modern legacy option, but set up my new Capital, give me +200% production on settlers, +25% to all yields, 2(?) points in each attribute category, and fork off my old world settlements into a new civ. I doubt I would choose it most games, but there's definitely some times where it might be fun to roleplay as America or Mexico and have fun setting up a new civ not quite from scratch. You could even have some fun with that independence - If you take the attribute points, you start at war with your old civ, or forego those points but start allied with them.
 
Not sure independent colonies need to be allied. I would expect a declaration of independence that leads to a war, and if the former overlord is not able to take back the new capital within a given number of turns (20?), the former colony will become a full player. It receives a random leader, keeps the duplicate civ, and does its own diplomacy – which can be an immediate alliance, maybe depending how you react on the declaration of independence.
I think liberating colonies by your initiative should create allied state. Historically that's the case with most of the colonies, who kept strong ties with metropolises, like Australia. Also, from gameplay point of view, liberation should be as viable as keeping them to make choices matter. In addition, those options shouldn't make expansion unviable.

Violent approach should be possible if you decide to keep colonies. In this case there could appear some rebels to fight against, which could create a state if they capture your settlements.
 
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I always thought it might make sense to have some type of mechanic in the modern age where the overseas colonies you were incentivized to settle in exploration now want their independence. You could give a player a lot of options as to how they want to address that - aggressively put them down, grant them independence, incentivize them to stay with influence, etc. That would be a logical extension of how the game currently goes, I think, and would add a new wrinkle to the modern age to make it feel as fresh as the previous two do.
This was my out-there theory before they announced the modern age. You're colony settlements each decide whether to stick with you or rebel.
You chose how to deal with it, an immediate war to attempt to pull them back in, or a peaceful independence. It could depend on what policies you used in exploration and the level of happiness in each.

They would form a new civ that you qualified for but didn't choose.
It only really works if we have more civs as the player count could double, although you could avoid doubling if the separatist settlements band together with those from other nearby civs.
You would end up with a handful of overseas settlements boarding a chunk of 1or 2 new civs in the distant lands.
 
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They could remove modern era entirely to make the game feel better in quality. That would help people also to get in the game and enjoy it more.
Maybe refund some money to customers as an goodwill.
 
Modern does feel much better if you do an advanced start, so I definitely think it's the snowball that ruins modern.

Unfortunately the snowball is a consequences of Civ 7's highly interconnected design decisions (their goals I think ended up backfiring on them) and then modern being uninspired within the three-part structure is a gut punch for civ switching. Untangling the ball of yarn will be tough.
 
b) All resources are freely available in all terrain types (or if they aren't, I couldn't tell you what the restrictions are) and none of them are required. There is no stalling the industrial revolution. There is no gold rush. We don't need to fight over the oil in the tundra and the desert, because we don't need the oil in the tundra and the desert. Our factories will churn all the same, even if all we feed them is oranges and flowers.
This is something I really find missing in Civ 7. It should be brought back and expanded. Let me explain why.

Expansion should be costly in Civ 7 and the extended empire requiring more and more upkeep to keep it from rebelling (like in real life with European colonies or even Roman extended provinces). But keeping this costly settlements (e.g. overseas colonies) should offer some nice surprise in Modern Era in a form of extra resources so it is kind of a gamble to set up->keep->defend a settlement that is barely profitable or not. Maybe there could be a special civilian unit available for all civs that could be used to search for these extra resources or estimate the probability of it appearing in the next Age. Again, like in real life with Alaska (gold rush) or Middle East (oil). I think it would open some possibilities for geopolitical conflicts or trade agreements in the game.
 
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Unfortunately the snowball is a consequences of Civ 7's highly interconnected design decisions (their goals I think ended up backfiring on them) and then modern being uninspired within the three-part structure is a gut punch for civ switching. Untangling the ball of yarn will be tough.
That was part of my reasoning for the suggested restrictions on what we can do in the earlier eras. Perfect building layout, with perfect adjaciencies, with perfect specialists is how we snowball.

Though another problem, unrelated to eras, is also how enormously impactful city state bonuses are, and how easy it is to still snap most of them up, even on Immortal. I genuinely feel the "+X% for each city state" needs to go. City state giving you its own additive bonus while also multiplying another city state's multiplicative bonus, and all of those getting multiplied again by the size of your empire flat out breaks the game, and not in a fun, rewarding way. It's why I mostly play Small maps. There's already too many indpendent powers to be grabbed on Standard. On Large, it goes beyond absurd. If you manage to get multiple allies, it gets even worse. This is end of turn 30 of modern, as Meiji, just before completing the final project for science win:
1753975387266.png

(this at the end of exploration, on turn 87)
1753975515718.png
 
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I think a lot of Modern's problems stem from Exploration. The fact that expansion is so enforced in Exploration means you're ending up with these big bloated empires in Modern with lots of micromanagement and so many yields you've already won the game. All the legacy paths seemed to be designed around this to their detriment (most notably the culture victory, the fastest way to win is to have as much territory as you can to get the Artifacts). If Exploration had more variety in its gameplay, with some civs viably choosing not to expand, there'd be more land to grab in Modern.
 
I think a lot of Modern's problems stem from Exploration. The fact that expansion is so enforced in Exploration means you're ending up with these big bloated empires in Modern with lots of micromanagement and so many yields you've already won the game. All the legacy paths seemed to be designed around this to their detriment (most notably the culture victory, the fastest way to win is to have as much territory as you can to get the Artifacts). If Exploration had more variety in its gameplay, with some civs viably choosing not to expand, there'd be more land to grab in Modern.
It's absolutely that, coupled with the fact your colonies remain premium land in modern, coupled with the fact there is no new land you need due to the bonuses. I'd love a version of the game where tundra & desert become viable (and necessary) in modern, your settlement cap stays the same (or even lowers) at the start of the era, and you have the choice others mentioned - where you could liberate your colonies, bringing new power into play, and use the freed up cap to settle for the new resources, or try to hold onto them for different bonuses.

Hopefully it's something that's actively on the devs' radar.
 
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This direction is interesting and I thought about it too. Having choice between keeping colonies while losing some benefits, or freeing them as allied states could be fun. But to make it really interesting, I think those mechanics need a lot of things to add - like rebels if you keep large empire or proxy wars where you could participate without going at war with other full civilizations.

P.S. If we ever get 4th age for Civ7, I expect something like this there. Decolonization and proxy wars are strong themes for post WWII world and ages are perfect for implementing mechanics with short time frame.
I think it would make for my some fun diplomatic situations as well - if your overseas colonies along my border are considering independence from you, perhaps I could spend influence and/or gold to help push them in that direction. Maybe I can even work to entice them to join my own empire instead of going completely independent, and maybe this is a good opportunity to bring back vassalage (ie, "you can remain under the yolk of that empire, or declare independence and become my vassal instead").
 
If the consensus is that one of the problems with Modern Age is that empires get too big, let's shrink them down a bit! My suggestion to have overseas colonies potentially declare independence already does this, but here's another more far fetched suggestion... what if towns and cities started to merge into "megacities" in the modern age?

Let's say my capital has two towns nearby. Introduce a mechanic where these towns become "suburbs" of my capital and are now considered a part of that city. The city now has access to ALL of the tiles belonging to those towns, the towns continue to do what they were already doing (supplying food and gold), but now they no longer need to be micromanaged. Instead of having, I dunno, 6 cities with 12 towns to keep track of now maybe I only have 6 cities to manage. Maybe towns that aren't close enough to cities to become suburbs slowly start to shrink as population moves elsewhere for opportunities (meaning you have to decide to potentially add a new city nearby to counteract this or let the town essentially become a ghost town). Obviously a lot more thought has to go into exactly how to manage these mechanics but I think something similar could work.
 
I will also say that from a mechanical stand point I think one of the issues of the "modern age" is that it seems to be too broad right now... it's a combination of the industrial age and the atomic age, and that means that it can't really focus on any one mechanic that would make either of those individual ages unique IMO. This is something that will probably change in the future once a new age is added, but right now it kind of messes up the last age.

Power, for example, seems like something that is obviously missing right now. Make me put all my settlements on the power grid - that's an obvious "new" mechanic that could be introduced towards the end of the game that could make it feel more unique. We've seen corporations in the past but nothing here yet. Computers and the internet could make for an interesting mechanic. Having to acquire radioactive materials could make for an interesting mechanic. We've got plenty of options, but we're just hampered by the current "modern age".
 
Well, you guys know Firaxis is reading this and making improvements based on trying to please everybody (somebody- is there anybody?) so the thing to do is demand donuts for finishing the whole game. Delivered to your door. I am serious. They should set it up so that anyone who plays all combinations of Civs through to a modern victory automatically gets a donut delivery.

This is the best way to improve the modern age imo.

Now, to spice this up, the person to do this should get their donuts delivered by Sid himself.
 
Why punish players if they finish a game with donuts? The reward should be something that anyone desired in the past 30 years, no? Like Steam Achievements or a momento. Oh, wait… such a reward already exists. Donuts…. Is it the 80s?
 
Well, you guys know Firaxis is reading this and making improvements based on trying to please everybody (somebody- is there anybody?) so the thing to do is demand donuts for finishing the whole game. Delivered to your door. I am serious. They should set it up so that anyone who plays all combinations of Civs through to a modern victory automatically gets a donut delivery.

This is the best way to improve the modern age imo.

Now, to spice this up, the person to do this should get their donuts delivered by Sid himself.
"The late game is boring, this has totally never been the case in every Civilization game ever made and is obviously completely unique to Civ 7! Damn you Firaxis!"
 
With the current system of separated ages I'd love to see a Beyond Earth/Alpha Centauri style age (or ages) added where you manage your off-world colony. Would be interesting to continue with culture and traditions from your empire on Earth.
 
With the current system of separated ages I'd love to see a Beyond Earth/Alpha Centauri style age (or ages) added where you manage your off-world colony. Would be interesting to continue with culture and traditions from your empire on Earth.
This is the only 4th age I would possibly buy. If the expansion is a 4th age with new civs then I'll for sure drop off the franchise.
 
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This is the only 4th age I would possibly buy. If the expansion is a 4th age with new civs then I'll for sure drop off the franchise.
I can't see it happening. The main reason why Civ7 ages belong to the same game is continuity of the map. Starting in a new world means it's a different game. This game could connect to Civ7 similarly to how Starships connects to Beyond Earth, but be a separate game nonetheless.

If we'll see 4th age, it will be a proper continuation, on the same map and finally ending with Alpha Centauri flight like all civ games before.
 
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