The Merchant Republic/Monarchy/Theocracy Buffet

[steveg700]

Since these are all acquired through separate civics (unlike autocracy/oligarchy/republic and democracy/fascism/communism), it's a pretty straightforward matter to just idly go through and take all three, netting the legacy bonuses for each.

Seems like that rather undermines the importance of choosing a government at that point in the game, because the way legacy bonuses work, their benefits are front-loaded. Although they increase over time, but it's such a slow gain that the lion's share of the bonus is up front. Weakens monarchy in particular, because it's a rung on the ladder to theocracy. So, if one civ stays monarchy and another goes into theocracy, they both have the legacy bonus towards envoys, but only the latter gets the faith discount.

Or am I misunderstanding how legacy bonuses work?

 

[omniclast]

I believe the larger percentage modifier is only in place while you have the government, it's only the cumulative bonus that carries over into your next government.

 

[narmox]

You also get negative diplo modifiers for having different governments than the AI civs, I find it DOES make a difference (playing at King), and it's useful aligning yourself with those you want to keep friendly or allied. I find they also often do align themselves with your government once they unlock them, if they want to keep good relations with you.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I believe the larger percentage modifier is only in place while you have the government, it's only the cumulative bonus that carries over into your next government.

Yes if you switch from Chiefdom to Theocracy to Monarchy to Merchant Republic and then to Chiefdom all in a few turns you will have 0 bonuses, because you never accumulated any legacy bonus...only what you accumulate over time carries over.

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

I think America is a little stronger than first thought because of their double legacy bonuses. I haven't played with them yet, but I do like playing around with the legacy bonuses.

 

[steveg700]

Yes if you switch from Chiefdom to Theocracy to Monarchy to Merchant Republic and then to Chiefdom all in a few turns you will have 0 bonuses, because you never accumulated any legacy bonus...only what you accumulate over time carries over.

Okay, that's good to know if it's true, but I'm not sure if that's actually codified anywhere.

You also get negative diplo modifiers for having different governments than the AI civs, I find it DOES make a difference (playing at King), and it's useful aligning yourself with those you want to keep friendly or allied. I find they also often do align themselves with your government once they unlock them, if they want to keep good relations with you.

Well, as far this thread goes, it's neither here nor there. You won't align perfectly with everyone, and even if you do share a government type and have a net overall positive modifier, you can pretty easily remain firmly entrenched in the "unfriendly" column.

 

[Onii-chan]

The main bonuses like 15% gold purchase discounts etc are only when you actually have the government. The legacy bonus is what you see when you hover your mouse over it, I.E: an extra 1% discount for every 15 turns you had the government (on standard game speed). So no just speed-switching like that won't gain you anything noteworthy

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Do legacy bonuses have a cap? I have not played with legacies long enough to discover this. I'd imagine it caps at the bonus provided by the government itself, but I've never kept one long enough to find out (America is next on my playlist though).

 

[LDiCesare]

To get the "full" legacy bonus takes forever to reach it.
Personally, I've never used monarchy nor theocracy, nor researched the corresponding civics, which are a waste of time if you don't go for religion.

 

[steveg700]

To get the "full" legacy bonus takes forever to reach it.
Personally, I've never used monarchy nor theocracy, nor researched the corresponding civics, which are a waste of time if you don't go for religion.

Monarchy's pretty handy, both for the extra housing and the boost to CS influence. Thing is, the AI pretty much never picks it, so to be a monarch is to take a diplo hit.

Of course, it makes little sense to me that a theocratic civ would actually provide a positive diplo modifier to other theocratic regimes. I guess there's something to be said for consistency though.

 

[sidiust]

Monarchy's pretty handy, both for the extra housing and the boost to CS influence. Thing is, the AI pretty much never picks it, so to be a monarch is to take a diplo hit.

Of course, it makes little sense to me that a theocratic civ would actually provide a positive diplo modifier to other theocratic regimes. I guess there's something to be said for consistency though.

At Deity difficulty, to not take Theocracy is diplo-suicide (or diplo-mega-headache, at the very least). Since it appears the AI loves Theocracy, it becomes an interesting trade-off for the player: do I go with the government that benefits my playstyle most, or do I attempt to play nice with my neighbors and sacrifice some bonuses? I personally like that this choice is forced on me.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Monarchy's pretty handy, both for the extra housing and the boost to CS influence. Thing is, the AI pretty much never picks it, so to be a monarch is to take a diplo hit.

Of course, it makes little sense to me that a theocratic civ would actually provide a positive diplo modifier to other theocratic regimes. I guess there's something to be said for consistency though.

The differing religion penalties more than counteract that, but if you're dealing with a theocracy of the same religion there shouldn't be a penalty.

 

[spfun]

I go classical republic or Oligarchy into merchant republic then democracy, every game. I don't go for religions and skip the religion civics. Religion is a waste of turns, better to skip it.

 

[LDiCesare]

I play on deity and I kind of neglect culture. I will build culture late game if I need tourists to win.
I find monarchy useless because:
I need some reiligious civics to get there, which are useless as I don't found a religion.
City state bonus is irrelevant. City states are always going to be more influenced by someone else, or killed by someone else. It's more efficient to conquer them.
Additional housing is also irrelevant. I never build medieval walls. If I need to waste culture and cogs in order to get a benefit just to CS influence and lose on additional trade routes, I'm doing something wrong.
Diplo-suicide is exaggerated and irrelevant. The AI may hate me but they are terrible, so what they think does not matter in the least. And they hate each other anyway as they keep declaring war and denouncing each other in the late game, while I just don't or, if I do, I wage a single war and don't accrue warmongering penalties with everybody the way they do. Furthermore, since I'm always lagging in culture, they have reached advanced governments much before me, so they'd be hating the guts out of me for a long time before I switched. I'm usually much more appreciated by other civs in the late game, even when I steal all their gold, than I am in the early game when I do some warmongering.