The Obelisk?

[r_rolo1]

^^To have GMs you need at least one of the this:
- Currency ( for markets ( slots for merchants ) )
- CoL ( for caste ( slots for merchants ) )
- The great Lighthouse and/or the Collosus ( GM GPP points )

All of them come much later than the Obelisk and his slots for priests... and in Civ IV a coin now is better than 10 coins later....

 

[Ibian]

CoL is a priority tech anyway so i dont really see the problem there. Easy enough to survive on goodie hut gold that long.

 

[yahn]

Every time I play with the Egyptians I get a cottage economy start: lots of flood plains, no trees, hardly any food and no horses, stone or marble anywhere to be found.

I like the idea of getting the pyramids and CoL early, but how do I do that if I don't have a production city anywhere to be found? Also, I have played a few games and I'm yet to find a city with three food resources near my capital. So, how do I run a Specialist Economy without a good amount of food? And what should I do if I don't have a lot of production to work with?

One of the games I played I had two food resources and stone in my capital's BFC. Needless to say, that made the game pretty easy. Every other time I get stuck with flood plains and minimal hills and trees.

edit:
Ha, I load up a new game and I get a start with three clams, corn, pigs, and three forested hills. I do a little exploring and find stone nearby. This should be another easy game.

Anyways, I'd appreciate if I could get some advice on the less fortunate starts.

 

[vicawoo]

Of course, settling great priests gives 5 gold, which is more than most of what my holy cities make. The best reason for shrines might be the culture and the priest slots.

 

[The Rook]

The Obelisk has great synergy with Ramesses's traits (Industrious, Spiritual), and makes him one of the best leaders to run a cottage free SE. If you are building farms instead of cottages, cities tend to reach happy cap much quicker, so you will hire more specialists. (Priests + Angkor Wat + Pyramids) == (super specialist), science, gold and production. Of course, the optimum strength of the priest is dependent on obtaining the aforementioned wonders, but Ramesses is Industrious, so that shouldn't be a problem. The Great Prophets that follow will make exceptional settled specialists, especially when stacked together with Representation. If Stonehenge is built, fledgling cities are guaranteed two specialist slots irrespective of buildings/civics. When I play Ramesses, I feel gutted when I run out of priest slots, and have to run a weak engineer instead .

In contrast, I can't think why anyone would choose Hattie over Ramesses. The great strength of Creative is the ability to rex without having to waste time researching Mysticism, building Monuments/Stonehenge. With Hattie, you have the choice of neglecting her UB, or cancelling out most of the usefulness of her trait.

 

[CivCorpse]

With Hattie, you have the choice of neglecting her UB, or cancelling out most of the usefulness of her trait.

Don't think of it as cancelling out. Think of it as boosting it.

 

[MyOtherName]

In contrast, I can't think why anyone would choose Hattie over Ramesses. The great strength of Creative is the ability to rex without having to waste time researching Mysticism, building Monuments/Stonehenge. With Hattie, you have the choice of neglecting her UB, or cancelling out most of the usefulness of her trait.

Faster expansion; creative lets you settle the best spots early without having to wait for stonehenge to complete or chopping obelisks. You can still build obelisks the old-fashioned way in specialist cities.

And even if you do get stonehenge, creative still means your borders pop 6 turns earlier (normal speed), which is a big deal if the best tiles are in the outer ring of the city radius.

Since rapid expansion with few wonders is my style, I generally prefer playing as Hatsheput. Oh, and she gets cheap libraries too.

 

[Derek_Zoolander]

I absolutely loove Rame II! He has my two favorite traits: Industrial and Spiritual. The UB works well with his traits too - Complete stonehenge, then run two specialist. That means 8 GPP per turn. Which means a great priest in 13 turns rather then 50. I love that. The UU isn't too great though. :S

 

[Julian Delphiki]

So you haven't really tried WC rush i assume?

 

[Derek_Zoolander]

I have once or twice, but I wasn't too happy with it, considering I had to have horses, which isn't always in a good spot. Copper or Iron are almost always near me. By the time I have a sizable war chariot army, the nation usually has enough archers to block it.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

WC's eat archers for breakfast, axemen for lunch..

 

[Lord Chambers]

Which means a great priest in 13 turns rather then 50. I love that.

Why do you love that?

 

[danieldaniel]

Priests are the worst GP later in the game, but in the ancient age the ability to get an early shrine working and expanding your religion to your neighbours is invaluable. Isabella ain't going to be always there doing the job for us.

Very few civs (if any?) can run two specialist this early in the game, and moreover, there's a relativily cheap wonder that makes egipt's UB instantly appear on every city... and there's an industrious leader called Ramses... and the pyramids are just around the corner... what else could we want? oh sure stone and marble.

I wouldn't rate neither Ramses nor Hatty as a top tier leader, but I always have a lot of fun playing them because I love the ancient and classical ages, and that's when they shine. I see Ramses as the perfect leader for an early wonder happy SE, although I find very difficult to make good use of him on anything above emperor.

 

[paulthebug]

...I researched all the religious techs whild building and used a prophet to bulb Theology, and then completed the Oracle the next turn to get free paper and the University of Sankore...

Thank you, Lord Chambers, I learn something today.

 

[Johan^^]

A normal play using obelisk is to use them not only to the priest specialists and the culture ,but also to get prophets to settle ( preferally in capitol ,to get Beauro bonus ). A extra 2 hammers and 5 gold is a big help in early game ( it can pay up extra maintenance of 2 cities and the hammers... well hammers is almost all in Civ IV isn't it ? ) and Egyptians can get that extra bonus far earlier than anyone else......

The Beauracracy bonus only applies for the hammers right, since gold is not considered commerce?

Or am I wrong on this point ?

 

[Lord Chambers]

The Beauracracy bonus only applies for the hammers right, since gold is not considered commerce?

Correct.

Look this post satisfies the 10 character minimum.

 

[r_rolo1]

The Beauracracy bonus only applies for the hammers right, since gold is not considered commerce?

Or am I wrong on this point ?

Correct , but unless you're in 0 % it reflects in game due to the slider

 

[Artichoker]

Is the obelisk any good? Since Egypt does not start with mysticism, I don't see how it is useful. Why would I prioritize a prophet in the early game if I have no chance of founding a religion? Also, naturally, mysticism must be researched before the obelisk can be built and it seems like mining and husbandry would be a much higher priority.

I want to know how I can use the obelisk, because I want to win a cultural victory on monarch and Hatshepsut seemed like a fun leader to do that with. I figure if I could beeline to monotheism to found Judaism and build The Great Wall (playing on raging barbarians) in the process, I'd be in pretty good shape.

I have tried that strategy a few times and I get an early lead, but I'm not able to expand fast enough and get stuck with weak defenses and only four or five cities before I'm sparking boarder tensions with two or three civs that usually arn't very happy with me to begin with (playing with 18 civs).

I don't know about the Obelisk, but the War Chariot looks like a really good unit. If you see your opponents building lots of Axemen, this is the one unit you can use to knock them out.

As far as other civs' Unique Buildings go, the Greeks' Odeon is a really great one to have. It's basically a Colosseum, and much more. It provides twice the happiness in addition to a +3 culture bonus.

 

[yahn]

I played a few games with Egypt and I can say that Ramesses II is a very good leader. Ramesses II has a great shot at winning in every possible way. Egypt's starting technologies allow for very quick chariot production if horses are near Thebes. Obviously, a chariot rush is an extremely viable option for an early rush. On top of that, being industrious Ramesses II has a great shot at building all or, depending on difficulty settings, any combination of, Stonehenge, The Great Wall, The Great Pyramid, and The Oracle. An early rush and early wonders are very important for a victory of any kind and Ramesses II is among the leaders that can accomplish either or both.

As far as I'm concerned, a cultural victory, depending on the map, is easy for any industrious leader. Build The Oracle in Thebes for a Code of Laws slingshot after you have a second city and Confucianism will be founded in that city. Use the obelisk to run priest specialists in the capital and get a the Kong Maio early. Then build a third city in a viable spot to wonder spam. It's not hard to win a cultural victory on monarch in the 1800s with this strategy. Generally good civic choices are Representation, Pacifism, and Free Speech. On higher difficulties this strategy is probably exponentially more difficult, but on monarch, it is the easiest way for me to win.

The Space Race is a little more difficult but still very obtainable. Ramesses II is industrious. His UU and UB don't really change the strategy any for a Space Race victory. Get the Pyramid, Library, and Liberalism and theres a great shot.

What do you think?

 

[The Rook]

I played a few games with Egypt and I can say that Ramesses II is a very good leader. Ramesses II has a great shot at winning in every possible way. Egypt's starting technologies allow for very quick chariot production if horses are near Thebes. Obviously, a chariot rush is an extremely viable option for an early rush. On top of that, being industrious Ramesses II has a great shot at building all or, depending on difficulty settings, any combination of, Stonehenge, The Great Wall, The Great Pyramid, and The Oracle. An early rush and early wonders are very important for a victory of any kind and Ramesses II is among the leaders that can accomplish either or both.

As far as I'm concerned, a cultural victory, depending on the map, is easy for any industrious leader. Build The Oracle in Thebes for a Code of Laws slingshot after you have a second city and Confucianism will be founded in that city. Use the obelisk to run priest specialists in the capital and get a the Kong Maio early. Then build a third city in a viable spot to wonder spam. It's not hard to win a cultural victory on monarch in the 1800s with this strategy. Generally good civic choices are Representation, Pacifism, and Free Speech. On higher difficulties this strategy is probably exponentially more difficult, but on monarch, it is the easiest way for me to win.

The Space Race is a little more difficult but still very obtainable. Ramesses II is industrious. His UU and UB don't really change the strategy any for a Space Race victory. Get the Pyramid, Library, and Liberalism and theres a great shot.

What do you think?

I agree, I think Ramesses is a good leader too, probably underrated by many. In one of my games with Ramesses, I didn't work out that I was going to pursue a cultural win until 1816, and this was when 2 of the 3 prospective legendary cities had less than 5000 culture. Even worse, I'd built Heritage and two cathedrals in one of my border cities under cultural pressure. Anyway, thankfully the capital was inevitably going to turn legendary thanks to the wonder spam. I built a 9th city of dubious value to unlock a 3 more cathedrals. I farmed out a high food city, built National Park and Global Theater, and supported numerous artists in one city. Did the same thing with a lesser food city, but workshopped some flatlands first to build Broadway and Hollywood first. Victory 1934 (very late I know).

This was my first post-Industrial Age cultural victory, and my first attempt with Ramesses. To be honest my luck was very poor, I didn't have any marble, copper or stone, and I started right next to Toku (who predictably hated me and dowed 3 times). On top of this I played with all the foresight of a headless chicken for ¾ of the game. If you have bad luck and play badly at Emperor level, it helps when you have a leader who isn't too shoddy imho.