The Old Empires

What do you think of this scenario

  • Incredible!

    Votes: 55 45.1%

  • Great

    Votes: 33 27.0%

  • Ok

    Votes: 16 13.1%

  • Bad

    Votes: 18 14.8%
  • Total voters
    122
grumpylad,

You joined CFC January 15 2004.

The same day you made two positive posts in
ACWC3C3.9.

ACWC3C3.9 is runned by Misfit_travel and The Last Conformist.

Most people that have followed their thread know that
relations between me and Misfit_travel/TLC have been
very strained (understatement) the last 2 months.

Then you suddenly pops up in this thread March 3 and
make your posts 3,4, and 5 out of 5 posts done
since you joined.

I maybe wrong, notice that ,I maybe wrong but
I get the impression that your posts here today can be
motivated with above mentioned.

I do not know what MIsfit-travel and TLC have told
you about me and I do not care.

Procifica and I worked with ACW 6 months before
Misfit_travel/TLC joined.

Did you know that?

If you want your OWN picture about ACW and why
things went wrong I strongly recommend you to
read the main ACW-thread.

Best Regards

Rocoteh
 
Message:

Due to current events all creative work have been
halted.

Currents events = All the dirty tricks that are going
behind the scenes at CFC.
Note: This is NOT meant as critique against Thunderfall
or the moderators.

The so called short version will not be supported and
because of that it have been removed.

I am old. My health is bad. When people try to harass
me it become to much.

It has existed an "Anti-Rocoteh group". That is an fact.
Maybe it still exists I do not know.

The coming days I will consider if I shall cease all creative
work. In such a case I will also cease posting at CFC for
good.

You can say that then my enemys have won.
Yes that is correct. My enemys then have won.

Rocoteh
 
Dear all:

Rocoteh has made a direct and personal accusation at me which I cannot let go. I am including here a Personal Message that Rocoteh sent to me (and my response back to him).

This is my only comment on this point, but I would hope that everyone can move on.

(Sarevok, I apologize for this off thread post, but I believe it is necessary to move past this. I have no wish to impact or interfere in what is a superb scenario by you and Rocoteh).

I have not, and will not, make any negative statements regarding Rocoteh, whom I feel have made tremendous contributions on any number of scenarios. I have not, and will not, assist anyone in making negative or slanderous statements toward any member of this forum.

Kindest regards,
Misfit


***** contents of private correspondence initiated by Rocoteh, replied to by Misfit_travel *****

Rocoteh:

What are you talking about? I don't even know who Grumpyland is. I have purposely refrained from any thread I've seen you post to.

I find this unwarranted accusation totally unacceptable. I quite frankly don't want anything to do with you, but have not and will not do anything against you on any of the forums. I find that you make accusations without evidence.

Misfit


Rocoteh wrote on Mar 03, 2004 04:10 AM:
Misfit_travel

If you and TLC lies behind the attack made
by grumpylad against me I must say you gone
down to a level I did think you would abstain from.

grumpylad joins CFC January 15 and makes post 1 and 2
(positive) at your thread.

Then he suddenly attacks me March 3 with post 3,4 and 5
out 5 posts.

Well if you and TLC stands behinds this its possible
you will win!

I am so sick and tired about all the dirty tricks that
I consider cease all creative work and stop posting
at CFC.

I hope it feels good for you and TLC.

Rocoteh
 
I leave the above post from Misfit_travel without
comment since I do no want to be accused being
a part of a flaming-war.

I have although reported the post to a moderator
since it is of great importance to know if its OK
to publish personal messages in the forums.

Since 4 months I have downloaded and saved
PM:s.

Padma and Chieftess,
Is it OK if I publish them in the forums?

Rocoteh
 
Sarevok,

I request a PM from you within 16 hours from
now, where you define your position.

If I not get any PM, this will be my last post.

I will then de facto leave CFC for ever.

Rocoteh
 
Rocoteh, please be assured that there are others at CFC who would be very sad if you left CFC for good. As I have seen - while looking over some other threads -, you have helped many people making historcial accurate scenarios. You have provided them with information and tips and encouragement. And now you are in the middle of a very much appreciated scenario that has been downloaded quite a lot.
So please don't feel pushed away by the very few people that you think are against you. They are only a few out of about 40,000 members. And please be assured that there are many others who value your work very very much!!!!
So please don't feel frustrated and stay with us! :) :) :)

CellKu
 
Rocoteh I agree with Cellku dont leave just cus a couple of idiots who think they are cool go around saying some bad stuff about you!! Who cares about them if it makes you better go flame them I don't care now that you told me about this!! just don't go!! Give em the cold shoulder or what ever you want to tone them out just plz don't go!!!
 
The reasons for the negative vote :-

The British navy is incorrect, as is it's level of re-inforcements for its army

For example RK Massie in his seminal book "Dreadnought" quotes UK Dreadnought strenght at the outbreak of WWI as follows :
Dreadnought, Bellerophon Class (x3 Bellerophon, Superb & Temeraire), StVincent Class (x4 St Vincent, Vanguard, Collingwood & Neptune), Colossus Class (x2 Colossus & Hercules) Orion Class (x4 Orion, Conqueror, Monarch & Thunderer) King George V Class (x4 King George V, Ajax, Centurion & Audacious) Iron Duke Class (x4 Benbow, Emperor of India, Iron Duke & Marlborough). I have ignored both the Queen Elizabeth Class and The Royal Sovereign Class as their keels had been laid but they were not in service until after the outbreak of the war.

Massie gives British Battlecruiser strenght as 11 at the outbreak of the war in 3 Classes (Invincible {Invincible, Inflexible & Indomitable} Indefaitigable {Indefaitigable, New Zealand & Australia} & Lion { Lion, Princess Royal, Queen Mary & Tiger}. At the time their was a degree of arguement over the design of the BC's Fisher aimed for faster, but heavier armed ships at a cost to armour. Jutland showed the faults of the BC concept.

Whilst on the subject of the Bristish Capital ships, it's perhaps worth noting that perhaps the Germans should have a tougher defence (better armour, sights, under water protection) when fighting againest the UK.

On the UK's lesser ships I have a figure of 221 destroyers (Source Janes Fighting Ships WWI), of which 42 were with the Home Fleet at Scapa Flow. The remainder were scattered around the country on defensive duties or protecting the Empires shipping lanes and Colonies. A Couple of urls to check out http://www.naval-history.net or http://www.worldwar1.co.uk. You could also check out Amazon's book view facility to help confirm my other sources.

The UK army was an exception to the rest of the major European Powers being a professional (rather than conscript) organisation it was also one of the smallest (Not counting the Dominion forces and of course the Army of India), however the British public volunteered in huge numbers 11/8 to 21/8 over 100,000 voulnteered for the colours. You may be aware of the famous Kitchener poster. In additon there were many adhoc units formed called "Pals" where factories, unversities etc joined as a whole. Sources for these figures includes John Keegan "The First World War", JH Priestlys 1914. Some urls' www.iwm.org.uk www.bbc.co.uk/history and www.1914-1918.net

The Russian navy is incorrect(way to few) as it's reinforcements for it's army (way to many).

After it's decisive defeat in the Russo-Japanese war the fleet had to be rebuilt sources indicate the following :-Russia's aging Baltic Fleet consist of five pre-dreadnoughts with four dreadnoughts completing, six old armoured cruisers, four light or protected cruisers, destroyers, torpedo boats and a few small submarines. Sources are as above. Additionally the Black Sea Flotilla which according to www.navy.ru had 5 Battleships, plus supporting light ships appears under strenght.

With regard to the Russian Army I'm sure you have already considered that the Germans implemented the "Schlieffen" Plan because they believed that they would have time to crush the West whilst the Russians mobilsed this initself should convince that intially Russian reinforcements would be slow in arriving. Remeber that Russia was still primarily agriculturally bassed (less than 33 since the edict of emancipation) and dependent upon getting in the harvest (the very time the Germans struck). As a country it had a very poor infrastructure check Paul Kenndey's "Rise and Fall of Superpowers" for some figures on railways when compared to other more developed nations.Their performance at Tannenberg suggests a slow cumbersome army not used to manonvre. Given a choice I would probably prefer them to be rated as consripts and be unable to build barracks if you decide to get the level of reinforcements. After a few weeks you will have enough using "meatgrinder" tatics to take most cities.


The Russian army is way to strong when compared with the Germans and Austrians. I was able to destroy Germany and Austria by the end of 1914

Should you wish to see my game save let me have your email address and I'll mail the game. That should should you how I destroyed the Central Powers by Late 1914.

In general artillery is far too strong, given a little planning it's possible to have a high speed break thru.

If you would like to look at any of the later battles they demostrate the limited use of artillery for instance the Somme, a six week bombardment firing over 1,500,000 shells had remarkably little affect againest an entrenched foe. That said the German bombardments of the very late war had an impact because of their speed and the troops which they used to attack the entrenchments (which incidentally I rate your description quite highly)

If the game is set for a VP win it ends within 3-4 turns and without it it never ends ( todate Austria, Germany, Bulgaria, Turkey, Holland and Sweden have all been eliminated) but I am still short of the land for a domination victory despite having a population of over a billion.

Again I can provide you a copy of my two game saves to verify these factors should you wish them.

The tech-tree needs work, both over the time it takes to recieve a tech and the starting techs (i.e Britian unable to build Dreadnoughts or Russian Light Artillery)

We can argue the time it takes to recieve a tech, but not who can build what, the UK already had 22 dreadnoughts in service and another 8 under construction surely this should mean that they start with the tech? Likewisde for the Russians the Artillery was their most professional service, techically adept and with a long history (check the Crimea, Napoleonic, seven Years and Great Northern Wars) only the Cavarly (Noble connections) was held in higher regard, even during WWII and afterwards the Artillery was King of the battle field.

As I said in my earlier post I found your work interesting and still look forward to playing the completed work.
 
Originally posted by Rocoteh
Sarevok,

I request a PM from you within 16 hours from
now, where you define your position.

If I not get any PM, this will be my last post.

I will then de facto leave CFC for ever.

Rocoteh
Click to expand...

My reply has been sent.
 
Originally posted by grumpylad
The reasons for the negative vote :-

The British navy is incorrect, as is it's level of re-inforcements for its army

For example RK Massie in his seminal book "Dreadnought" quotes UK Dreadnought strenght at the outbreak of WWI as follows :
Dreadnought, Bellerophon Class (x3 Bellerophon, Superb & Temeraire), StVincent Class (x4 St Vincent, Vanguard, Collingwood & Neptune), Colossus Class (x2 Colossus & Hercules) Orion Class (x4 Orion, Conqueror, Monarch & Thunderer) King George V Class (x4 King George V, Ajax, Centurion & Audacious) Iron Duke Class (x4 Benbow, Emperor of India, Iron Duke & Marlborough). I have ignored both the Queen Elizabeth Class and The Royal Sovereign Class as their keels had been laid but they were not in service until after the outbreak of the war.

Massie gives British Battlecruiser strenght as 11 at the outbreak of the war in 3 Classes (Invincible {Invincible, Inflexible & Indomitable} Indefaitigable {Indefaitigable, New Zealand & Australia} & Lion { Lion, Princess Royal, Queen Mary & Tiger}. At the time their was a degree of arguement over the design of the BC's Fisher aimed for faster, but heavier armed ships at a cost to armour. Jutland showed the faults of the BC concept.

Whilst on the subject of the Bristish Capital ships, it's perhaps worth noting that perhaps the Germans should have a tougher defence (better armour, sights, under water protection) when fighting againest the UK.

On the UK's lesser ships I have a figure of 221 destroyers (Source Janes Fighting Ships WWI), of which 42 were with the Home Fleet at Scapa Flow. The remainder were scattered around the country on defensive duties or protecting the Empires shipping lanes and Colonies. A Couple of urls to check out http://www.naval-history.net or http://www.worldwar1.co.uk. You could also check out Amazon's book view facility to help confirm my other sources.

The UK army was an exception to the rest of the major European Powers being a professional (rather than conscript) organisation it was also one of the smallest (Not counting the Dominion forces and of course the Army of India), however the British public volunteered in huge numbers 11/8 to 21/8 over 100,000 voulnteered for the colours. You may be aware of the famous Kitchener poster. In additon there were many adhoc units formed called "Pals" where factories, unversities etc joined as a whole. Sources for these figures includes John Keegan "The First World War", JH Priestlys 1914. Some urls' www.iwm.org.uk www.bbc.co.uk/history and www.1914-1918.net

The Russian navy is incorrect(way to few) as it's reinforcements for it's army (way to many).

After it's decisive defeat in the Russo-Japanese war the fleet had to be rebuilt sources indicate the following :-Russia's aging Baltic Fleet consist of five pre-dreadnoughts with four dreadnoughts completing, six old armoured cruisers, four light or protected cruisers, destroyers, torpedo boats and a few small submarines. Sources are as above. Additionally the Black Sea Flotilla which according to www.navy.ru had 5 Battleships, plus supporting light ships appears under strenght.

With regard to the Russian Army I'm sure you have already considered that the Germans implemented the "Schlieffen" Plan because they believed that they would have time to crush the West whilst the Russians mobilsed this initself should convince that intially Russian reinforcements would be slow in arriving. Remeber that Russia was still primarily agriculturally bassed (less than 33 since the edict of emancipation) and dependent upon getting in the harvest (the very time the Germans struck). As a country it had a very poor infrastructure check Paul Kenndey's "Rise and Fall of Superpowers" for some figures on railways when compared to other more developed nations.Their performance at Tannenberg suggests a slow cumbersome army not used to manonvre. Given a choice I would probably prefer them to be rated as consripts and be unable to build barracks if you decide to get the level of reinforcements. After a few weeks you will have enough using "meatgrinder" tatics to take most cities.


The Russian army is way to strong when compared with the Germans and Austrians. I was able to destroy Germany and Austria by the end of 1914

Should you wish to see my game save let me have your email address and I'll mail the game. That should should you how I destroyed the Central Powers by Late 1914.

In general artillery is far too strong, given a little planning it's possible to have a high speed break thru.

If you would like to look at any of the later battles they demostrate the limited use of artillery for instance the Somme, a six week bombardment firing over 1,500,000 shells had remarkably little affect againest an entrenched foe. That said the German bombardments of the very late war had an impact because of their speed and the troops which they used to attack the entrenchments (which incidentally I rate your description quite highly)

If the game is set for a VP win it ends within 3-4 turns and without it it never ends ( todate Austria, Germany, Bulgaria, Turkey, Holland and Sweden have all been eliminated) but I am still short of the land for a domination victory despite having a population of over a billion.

Again I can provide you a copy of my two game saves to verify these factors should you wish them.

The tech-tree needs work, both over the time it takes to recieve a tech and the starting techs (i.e Britian unable to build Dreadnoughts or Russian Light Artillery)

We can argue the time it takes to recieve a tech, but not who can build what, the UK already had 22 dreadnoughts in service and another 8 under construction surely this should mean that they start with the tech? Likewisde for the Russians the Artillery was their most professional service, techically adept and with a long history (check the Crimea, Napoleonic, seven Years and Great Northern Wars) only the Cavarly (Noble connections) was held in higher regard, even during WWII and afterwards the Artillery was King of the battle field.

As I said in my earlier post I found your work interesting and still look forward to playing the completed work.
Click to expand...

I like your imput and Ideas, but personally a negative poll vote is not something to do from the outset. Remember, there are 3 scenarios on this thread.
 
Important message:

I have with great negative surprise read a PM from
Sarevok.

My decision is clear:
I will never more do any creative work related to CIV.

I will cease posting at CFC. This is my last post.

To CellKu and Happyman: Thank you.

To you all: Goodbye forever.

Rocoteh
 
Rocoteh... plz don't leave your the only thing that keeps me sane!!! Who cares if some idiots are total jerks!! Plz don't leave your a good friend and I don't want you to go!!! At least stay one more day 24 hours and let me tell you why tou should stay!! plz don't go plz
 
What the heck is going on??
 
Happyman, Although I am no Rocoteh in terms of knowledge, I know significant amounts of things about history and military stats. This will not be a severe blow save he has removed both the shortened version and WW1 Global.
 
Did he at least give you the map he was working on?.... God Rocoteh if your readin this come back!
 
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