The opposite of Wonder Addiction

[FlyinJohnnyL]

Even in my civ 3 days, I've always heard of "wonder addiction". I think I have the opposite problem. It's incredibly difficult for me to EVER build a wonder. I will occasionaly go for GLH or GLib, but beyond that, I really don't build them till the modern era, when I might go for Rock 'N Roll or Hollywood just to trade.

I'm really into specializing my cities; should I be having a "wonder city"? I usually make all of my hammer cities unit producers instead...

 

[CCRunner]

You can always just take your wonders

I like to spam wonders in the capital a la obsolete with a SSE there and a CE everywhere else. It really works quite well.

 

[oyzar]

This is a good thing... Although you should learn to view hanging gardens as 30 hammers per city +1 health. Then it starts looking good once you have stone sometimes, at 250 hammers you only need 9 cities for it to be negative hammers including the aqueduct.

 

[TheWilltoAct]

Hanging Gardens seems kinda risky as it can push your cities over their happy cap o.O

I'd love to have a game where it was useful, would have to expand pretty rapidly/have some good resources/be charismatic I spose.

 

[DMOC]

You could build it and try to whip a settler in a different city and quickly found one. That way, the city will very soon be 2 population.

And you can whip away the unhappy population.

 

[oyzar]

Just use monarchy to get happiness if needed but looking at the pop as whips makes it easy to see when it is very worth it to build it(though most of the time you wouldn't actually whip away that pop making it more useful than 30 hammers, and of course 30 hammers from your production city is not the same as in a new city needing a granary...

 

[budweiser]

I was once like you, never ever building wonders. Then I realized that you need to build some just to keep the ai from getting their benefits. I dont like to fight very much so, its important for me to build them because i am not capturing any.

Now I try and work them into my game plan and will build them if/when practical. The Great Light House is good for coastal starts. I will take Stone Henge if I want to grab a religion later. I will build the Great Wall if I want a spy economy. I build the Taj for a free GA, etc.

 

[Monsterzuma]

I'm just like that... Nothing to worry about, really. On the higher difficulty levels that attitude will save you on many occasions.

My mantra goes something like: don't build wonders unless it's part of a plan.

It seems to me that the main positive aspect of building wonders is that it gives concrete benefits without increasing maintenance expenses. This can not be said of most of the alternatives such as building an axeman army, building more cities, building more workers, etc.

 

[tycoonist]

not building wonders is often the sign of a good player

 

[TheWilltoAct]

Just use monarchy to get happiness if needed but looking at the pop as whips makes it easy to see when it is very worth it to build it(though most of the time you wouldn't actually whip away that pop making it more useful than 30 hammers, and of course 30 hammers from your production city is not the same as in a new city needing a granary...

Ah, good point, I don't use slavery much yet as you may have gathered

 

[Dracjn]

don't worry about not building wonders. why would you build them when u can just take them by force.....

 

[DragonHawk]

I agree with the above. The only exception is Great Library. For this wonder, its location is 90% of its value

 

[Belisar]

I usually make all of my hammer cities unit producers instead...

I don't see a problem.
The stronger guy wins , not the one with more shiny stuff.

 

[Iranon]

Another big 'it depends...'.

Having the Pyramids for early Representation is awesome... but is it more awesome than 14 Axemen? Definitely not if your neighbour is a hardcore wonderspammer who'd have built it for you anyway.

***

The Oracle is a good example of a wonder that's attractive even to someone who doesn't like building them... after all, you can't just capture it for the same effect. You need 190 beakers to research Priesthood from scratch and 150 hammers to build the oracle... that's often faster than researching a key tech the usual way, so the religious techs and a Great Prophet source are freebies.

***

Something like the Great Lighthouse might be essential for your strategy - while capturing it is again preferable, your entire game can be thrown into disarray if someone on another continent gets it first.

***

Having said that, wonders can support other strategies quite well. Great People shouldn't be neglected (the first half dozen especially give great rewards for a moderate investment). However... the direct output of specialists under anything but Representation is disappointing. Therefor, the Pyramids are worthy of consideration, as is getting many of your GPP by collecting wonders rather than excessive specialist farming.

 

[Daedal]

It really doesn't depend though. Wonder addiction is a problem because building all wonders and no troops will get you killed in nearly all situations. Building all units and no wonders will put you ahead (as long as you use them) in nearly all situations.

 

[Meanness]

Don't pigeonhole yourself into a strategy.

Reasons to wonderspam:

• Industrious leader
• Stone or marble
• Isolated start
• Archipelago map

Reasons to avoid wonders:

• Neighbors nearby
• Early UU
• Pangea or large continent (we'll capture them instead)

 

[Mercenary82]

I tend to go this route when playing JC, Genghis or Monte. I pretty much build no wonders the entire game and concentrate on capturing or razing wonders as they are built. If you are not capturing or razing wonders you need to go for a few here and there if you have marble/stone, or have excess forest to chop one out if only to deny the effects to the AI.

 

[Levgre]

only about 30% of the wonders I actually consider each game. They each have their place. Your game would be better if you selectively built wonders at the correct times.

Some wonders really are not much more expensive than buildings, if you have the resources for them. Perhaps be careful not to over-gauge the expense of building a wonder or two.

Of course, when you need to expand militarily early on, it is basically impossible to build anything that will serve you better than units. So any wonders built during times of military expansion would be because they are pivotal towards your long-term plans, and worth delaying conquest a bit.

Example, on a non-crowded continent with 3 people, it could be worth putting off conquest to build the pyramids.... since you wouldn't be able to conquer the pyramids if it was built elsewhere.

And an early pyramids typically leads to an additional 1-2 more wonders, because of the GE points. GE points are extremely valuable early on, over the not needing to research monarchy, and being able to adopt all government civics.

 

[oyzar]

Don't pigeonhole yourself into a strategy.

Reasons to wonderspam:

• Industrious leader
• Stone or marble
• Isolated start
• Archipelago map

Reasons to avoid wonders:

• Neighbors nearby
• Early UU
• Pangea or large continent (we'll capture them instead)

Only reason to wonderspam is if you feel like doing something different.. It can beat the AI due to their natural disadvantages sure but it isn't a strategy that would hold if the AI halfway knew what it was doing(or you were playing against humans).

 

[Levgre]

wonder spamming is actually pivotal towards beating humans in some situations, such as competitive isolation, when you actually have the resources... The person who ends up getting a great person every 5-10 turns will be at a big advantage, helps economy, can bulb education/liberalism/printing press, can have enough to start 3 golden ages in pivotal periods, and reach the 2 free great people after Sci. Method earlier.

Of course, that is more mid-game spamming.

Expanding as quickly as possible is usually better early. The exceptions are the pyramids and Oracle, which can give a big edge in isolation. But mids are still rarely worth it without stone, just way too many hammers that early.,