The Palace - Term 6 - Chieftains Office
- Thread starter dutchfire
- Start date
I hereby officially resign from my position as Chieftain of Yasutan.
As one of the citizens here who I respect most once said, the goal of this game is to have fun. During the last few days, I have noticed that I am no longer enjoying myself here for various reasons.
When I entered the demogame, about one and a half year ago, I was a![[civ4]](/images/smilies/civ4.gif "Civ4 [civ4]")
newbie, looking to play an enjoyable game of civ. I did enjoy it, and I've learned quite a lot about the game in this subforum. However, more recently I had the impression that I wasn't learning anything new here anymore. The last good idea I saw here that I wouldn't have thought of myself was to attack the longbowman near Berlin before it entered the city. We all know how that ended...
I have always seen the demogame as a "glorified succession game". For me it has always been about playing a game of civ, not about all the legal stuff. Sadly, the meta-game has been interfering with people like me, who just want to play a game of civ, a bit too much for my liking. If that's the way you all want to play this game, then that's fine with me, but I'm not going to be part of it.
I greatly enjoyed playing with a lot of people here, however some of the people I liked best have gone, and have been replaced by others. Many of them were great too, but some of them weren't. I now prefer doing other activities, with more people I like, and less people I dislike.
So all in all, I am going to take a break from this game now, and have some fun by playing succession games, multiplayer and Hall of Fame. I might come back here every now and then to check how you're doing, to throw some ideas into the discussions or just to read up on how you're doing. Who knows, I might even return as an official in the future, if this place changes enough for me to appreciate it again.
So long,
dutchfire
As one of the citizens here who I respect most once said, the goal of this game is to have fun. During the last few days, I have noticed that I am no longer enjoying myself here for various reasons.
When I entered the demogame, about one and a half year ago, I was a
newbie, looking to play an enjoyable game of civ. I did enjoy it, and I've learned quite a lot about the game in this subforum. However, more recently I had the impression that I wasn't learning anything new here anymore. The last good idea I saw here that I wouldn't have thought of myself was to attack the longbowman near Berlin before it entered the city. We all know how that ended...I have always seen the demogame as a "glorified succession game". For me it has always been about playing a game of civ, not about all the legal stuff. Sadly, the meta-game has been interfering with people like me, who just want to play a game of civ, a bit too much for my liking. If that's the way you all want to play this game, then that's fine with me, but I'm not going to be part of it.
I greatly enjoyed playing with a lot of people here, however some of the people I liked best have gone, and have been replaced by others. Many of them were great too, but some of them weren't. I now prefer doing other activities, with more people I like, and less people I dislike.
So all in all, I am going to take a break from this game now, and have some fun by playing succession games, multiplayer and Hall of Fame. I might come back here every now and then to check how you're doing, to throw some ideas into the discussions or just to read up on how you're doing. Who knows, I might even return as an official in the future, if this place changes enough for me to appreciate it again.
So long,
dutchfire
Hyronymus
Troop leader
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2003
- Messages
- 1,872
Sorry to see you leave but I cannot disagree with you to be honest. The only reason that keeps me here is that I rather use my influence as an insider then as an outsider. I believe, perhaps mistakenly, that it's easier to change matters from the inside.
I do agree with that, and have considered it. However what if the inside doesn't want to be changed? At the moment, I much prefer starting something new, somewhere else than painstakingly trying to change this game. During the one and a half year I've been here, I've seen many attempts to change this game for the better. Most of them had some effect for some time, and then died slowly, bringing us back to where we started. I honestly don't see the point anymore, and I'm now throwing in the thowel.
ordinaryguy
Back to Civ!
You've done a good job, really don't want another person to leave. But that's not up to me to decide.
So have you appointed a successor? Or have someone in mind?
So have you appointed a successor? Or have someone in mind?
Thanks, I daresay that I'm responsible for quite a decent share of our current winning position in this game.
That no longer is in my hands. According to our current laws, the governors have the right to appoint someone to the position of Chieftain if that position is vacant. Luckily the current governors are among the few people here I still have confidence in, so I expect you to do a good job.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I am sorry to see that you leave, even if we had our disagreements.
You have done a good job in making a strong case for your side, and been an inspirational and competent rival force to contest for the long term strategy of this game. But remember, it is the interplay of these rivaling forces that makes the demo-games different from succession games, and when disagreements on strategy and actions appear, we need good ground-rules.
These groundrules were not in place, and the anarcho-liberal constitution had so many gaps, it was hard to follow and easy to exploit. Donsig and Hyronymus will now work together to put this in place with a long overdue reform. This reform would help both concluding this game and setting up a BTS one.
However, as I highly suspect that I am one of the "disliked people" here, I am quite sure you knew very well how to play the metagame, as you nominated me for Warlord, even though you obviously considered my Civ-skills as inferior and my contribution subversive as well as disruptive. If that is any comfort, I will not seek any office here. I still consider you a great civ-player, but also hope you respect other ways of doing things if you decided and came back.
I still disagree on the Longbowman handling, which I still think would be handled differently, with good insights into how the AI works. The AI does not reinforce the way humans do. That unfortunate series of polls show the weakness of having leaders without powers, and citizens with all rights to superimpose new polls at whim, even the day before turn-chats, like I did.
Yet, I saw more appalling transgressions that took place before I intervened, but were passively accepted for the sake of comfort and peace.
I think we need to get back some of the structure we had back in the earlier demogames, but retain some of the good innovations Daveshack and others put forward. Yet, we need to strenghten the officials, as presently, their mandate is undefined, eroded and more or less made redundant by strong citizen powers.
This immense set of citizen powers makes election to offices more or less a futile exercise, as an insightful citizen can do all of the things an official can do, without the accountability, responsibility and mandate an official is restricted by. Hopefully, this will change, and hopefully, with your skills and gifts contribute to what is to take place, the positive reform of this game.
You have done a good job in making a strong case for your side, and been an inspirational and competent rival force to contest for the long term strategy of this game. But remember, it is the interplay of these rivaling forces that makes the demo-games different from succession games, and when disagreements on strategy and actions appear, we need good ground-rules.
These groundrules were not in place, and the anarcho-liberal constitution had so many gaps, it was hard to follow and easy to exploit. Donsig and Hyronymus will now work together to put this in place with a long overdue reform. This reform would help both concluding this game and setting up a BTS one.
However, as I highly suspect that I am one of the "disliked people" here, I am quite sure you knew very well how to play the metagame, as you nominated me for Warlord, even though you obviously considered my Civ-skills as inferior and my contribution subversive as well as disruptive. If that is any comfort, I will not seek any office here. I still consider you a great civ-player, but also hope you respect other ways of doing things if you decided and came back.
I still disagree on the Longbowman handling, which I still think would be handled differently, with good insights into how the AI works. The AI does not reinforce the way humans do. That unfortunate series of polls show the weakness of having leaders without powers, and citizens with all rights to superimpose new polls at whim, even the day before turn-chats, like I did.
Yet, I saw more appalling transgressions that took place before I intervened, but were passively accepted for the sake of comfort and peace.
I think we need to get back some of the structure we had back in the earlier demogames, but retain some of the good innovations Daveshack and others put forward. Yet, we need to strenghten the officials, as presently, their mandate is undefined, eroded and more or less made redundant by strong citizen powers.
This immense set of citizen powers makes election to offices more or less a futile exercise, as an insightful citizen can do all of the things an official can do, without the accountability, responsibility and mandate an official is restricted by. Hopefully, this will change, and hopefully, with your skills and gifts contribute to what is to take place, the positive reform of this game.
Just saw this. I am sad Dutchfire leaves.
Sometimes my opinions and his were the same, sometimes not (that's the way
I feel, because I think we were always in the same side).
I'm not trying to say partners in the opposing side are wrong or bad.
I bet all are here to have fun. But, "my fun" can, or not, be "your fun".
My fun comes from the civ game (like also dutch said of himself).
The Demo is just a branch of civ game, and a good one. "What I can learn with you and what you can learn with me" is IMHO the soul of the DG.
Strong, rich and fun "contests of points of view" can be done between two, or more, Domestic Affairs people, or Warmongers, or whatever. Everybody can learn and get fun from it,I know I did.
Again IMO the strong metagame here hurts badly the game. May be I should
have lots of fun with the "odd/even poll" or the "delay solution" , but sorry I
just can't.
I must say again I do not think I'm right and you wrong. And I want to stay here to "live" and learn better your system (unless, of course, you want me to leave).
Best regards,
Sometimes my opinions and his were the same, sometimes not (that's the way
I feel, because I think we were always in the same side).
I'm not trying to say partners in the opposing side are wrong or bad.
I bet all are here to have fun. But, "my fun" can, or not, be "your fun".
My fun comes from the civ game (like also dutch said of himself).
The Demo is just a branch of civ game, and a good one. "What I can learn with you and what you can learn with me" is IMHO the soul of the DG.
Strong, rich and fun "contests of points of view" can be done between two, or more, Domestic Affairs people, or Warmongers, or whatever. Everybody can learn and get fun from it,I know I did.
Again IMO the strong metagame here hurts badly the game. May be I should
have lots of fun with the "odd/even poll" or the "delay solution" , but sorry I
just can't.
I must say again I do not think I'm right and you wrong. And I want to stay here to "live" and learn better your system (unless, of course, you want me to leave).
Best regards,
robboo
Deity
Dutch
Sorry to see you go. I left for many of the same reasons. To much effort given to watch it die over non-in game issues. For me pitboss games filled my time. I still come back and made an effort to re-intergrate myself in this game...I just couldnt do it. I still vote in polls that matter and throw out a suggestion or two and I hope you do the same.
/Psst..hattrick friendly next week? PM me.
Sorry to see you go. I left for many of the same reasons. To much effort given to watch it die over non-in game issues. For me pitboss games filled my time. I still come back and made an effort to re-intergrate myself in this game...I just couldnt do it. I still vote in polls that matter and throw out a suggestion or two and I hope you do the same.
/Psst..hattrick friendly next week? PM me.
Tanktunker
Missionary of Hate
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2007
- Messages
- 190
I think it's a shame you're quitting, and I do hope you change your mind or at least come back every once in a while, but I can't say I really blame you.
ravensfire
Member of the Opposition
Ack - 'tis a pity to see you've stepped back.
Personally, I just gave up due to the abrasive, aggressive yet mostly whining style of the some of the posters, and the lack of willingness to cooperate by others. Ultimately, the ONLY difference between a DG and a SG is the existence of a meta-game. Neither can dominate - there must be an acceptance of both parts for a DG to be successful.
Of late both sides have been hammering their positions too hard - delay tactics, re-polling, aggressive and hostile posts. There is minimal mutual respect between citizens, and minimal respect for leaders.
See ya in the lurkers den, Dutchfire!
-- Ravensfire
Personally, I just gave up due to the abrasive, aggressive yet mostly whining style of the some of the posters, and the lack of willingness to cooperate by others. Ultimately, the ONLY difference between a DG and a SG is the existence of a meta-game. Neither can dominate - there must be an acceptance of both parts for a DG to be successful.
Of late both sides have been hammering their positions too hard - delay tactics, re-polling, aggressive and hostile posts. There is minimal mutual respect between citizens, and minimal respect for leaders.
See ya in the lurkers den, Dutchfire!
-- Ravensfire
Joe Harker
1st in the Premiership!
Sorry to see you leave.It's a great shame, considering what you have done through this demogame (and past ones) and we really have lost a key member of this demogame who will sorely missed.
Hyronymus
Troop leader
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2003
- Messages
- 1,872
With the full support of Methos, ordinaryguy and fed1943 I have been appointed as Chieftain for the remainder of term 6. I will remain Governor of the Northwestern aimag too but I promiss that I will do my best not to abuse these powers. In fact I shall only use my power as Chieftain to organise a few things that I hope will happen in this term.
First of all I like to hear from the DP (Joe Harker) if he intents to hold a gameplay session before the end of August. If that's the case I would like to suggest that we put up polls about the upcoming Roman war soon. Things that should be polled are if the citizens of Yasutan support such war and if they do what the scope should be: total annihilation of the Roman empire or weakening.
I end with a formality. During the vacant period of the Chieftain Office DaveShack and Nobody put up election polls for Term 7. These election polls have my full support. I therefor have no intention to put up similar polls.
Moderator Action: This and subsequent posts moved from warlord thread to their rightful place in the chieftain thread.
First of all I like to hear from the DP (Joe Harker) if he intents to hold a gameplay session before the end of August. If that's the case I would like to suggest that we put up polls about the upcoming Roman war soon. Things that should be polled are if the citizens of Yasutan support such war and if they do what the scope should be: total annihilation of the Roman empire or weakening.
I end with a formality. During the vacant period of the Chieftain Office DaveShack and Nobody put up election polls for Term 7. These election polls have my full support. I therefor have no intention to put up similar polls.
Moderator Action: This and subsequent posts moved from warlord thread to their rightful place in the chieftain thread.
Joe Harker
1st in the Premiership!
I am on holiday from tomorrow, until late on wednesday, so allowing two days for instructions, the next possible time for me is a week on saturday
Hyronymus
Troop leader
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2003
- Messages
- 1,872
You mean they announced themselves somewhere
.
You mean they announced themselves somewhere
I think I'm misunderstanding your original question. We're you asking for suggestions on how to play the next turnsession? If so, here's mine:
If Joe is unable to do it within this term, than I would post a request for any DP available (or the next one if we haven't concluded our pool) in the DP Pool thread. Whomever is able to play prior to this term ending, should be allowed to play the turn session.
