the path to happiness

[Rivaldo]

hi guys,

As I'm trying to claim domination victory, my main problem is the happiness level.
If I turn against another civ (war) I cannot conquer many cities since I'm literally crippled by unhappiness level and all goes down the train as this slows down the research and the money. In the later stages you can be left far behind your opponents and end up lacking severely for the completion of the target.
So what is the ideal path of happiness? The social policies play a huge part, nevertheless I cannot find the right combination to succeed. My problem is that when you seize a city the happiness can go from 10 to -20 in just one turn! I know all about the courthouse and the luxury resources but it is impossible to make a decent campaign and conquer the opponents in the long run.
I would appreciate your views and the blend of social policies that can be successful for domination victory.

 

[Loucypher]

When going domination, the following points need to be taken into account:
- Don't found too many cities early on. You don't need many, just a solid science and production core to keep you up and running.
- RAZE. Raze raze raze whichever city you come across that cannot immediately break even with happiness through luxuries/religious buildings/happiness buildings.
- Religion is a handy tool. Pagodas can do a lot of work.

Since you are out of trading partners when you go monger war, you might want to consider going down the Commerce track. It ensures a steady cashflow, and the final ability is MASSIVE for happiness.

A lot of other details depend on the specific civ you go for. But those are the points I'd start with.

 

[chazzycat]

Ideologies are great for happiness. Especially order, because the happiness comes from buildings you want anyway. Not stupid walls and crap like autocracy.

And be selective with the cities you keep. Most dom games involve a lot of razing.

 

[Dellan]

Don't let your cities grow too much.

I usually stop growth when a city reaches a population of 5.
When my happiness is solid I allow cities to grow further. I found this method to be a good way to not have unhappiness. If it's really crucial or if you want to have a cushion you can build colosseums and zoos.

 

[joncnunn]

While I agree with most of the second post, Pagadoas aren't the best choice for a wide empire even if you are Venice (or else planning on annexing them later) because of how expensive in terms of faith it is to build a copy for each and every city in your empire.
The one giving +2 faith for the boring Temple works much better since you can quickly build this in all cities that you have control over.

And some more detail on razing: If that city has no world wonders and also doesn't have any key tile within 3 hexes that's unique to it (luxury/strategic resource/natural wonder) it's better off razed even if at the moment it's happiness neutral.

Basically take a look at the AI's city placement and decide in advance which of the 2 or 3 cities the AI has planted that have the same luxury within 3 tiles of it should be the one that should work the tile.

 

[chazzycat]

pagodas are great though, if you have a high faith output.

 

[GWashington]

Adopt the order ideology, it has plenty of happiness benefits, like the +2 happiness for each monument. The last one in commerce is great too. And don't let your cities get too big, set a growth limit on them if you are having bad problems.

 

[Strategist83]

Ideologies are great for happiness.

This was the correct answer. In Civ 5, you aren't supposed to be able to conquer the whole world until the late-game techs and social policies (tenets). The main bulk of the happiness you'll need for world conquest comes from your ideology of choice.

Chazzy is wrong about autocracy's walls and stuff being useless, though - autocracy really is the ideology of choice for world conquest (no surprise there). The only reason you can get away with neglecting walls is that the AI is as poor as it is but the game isn't (and shouldn't be) balanced around that. Besides, walls & castles become highly useful in supporting your conquests provided you can construct the Neuschwanstein wonder. Autocracy's policies provide more happiness that any other source in the game, perfect for world domination (even the Prora exclusively provides happiness).

 

[chazzycat]

autocracy does have potential for higher happiness per city bonuses, you're not wrong. The problem is every single one of the buildings you have to build are military related. Under order, all the happiness comes from all-around useful buildings.

Autocracy would be great if puppet empires didn't get nerfed with the 5% science penalty. Puppets build all those military buildings anyway so it would be a good fit. But now to keep up in science I would much rather annex the good cities, raze the bad. After annexing a city I would start focusing on infrastructure to make sure I'm keeping pace with the science penalty...under order all those buildings like monument, workshop, university, factory, all provide happiness. Under autocracy to get the same happiness you would have to build stuff that doesn't provide any other economic or scientific benefit.

and for the record I did not use the word "useless". I just prefer order personally, for the reasons above.

 

[danaphanous]

Yeah, I agree, autocracy is great, order is better for happiness in empires that all are non-puppeted but could still work well.

Religion actually really helped me on my first domination game. I didn't seem to have trouble getting a high enough faith output to buy mosques and pagodas in every city including the capitals I would occasionally annex if they were good enough. I mean there's nothing else to spend it on, so why not have something super-useful like pagodas to buy when you have enough? one other useful perk of pagodas vs. the standard temple is: temple costs 2 maintenance and pagodas cost nothing. Plus they help happiness and culture, not just faith. but you can't get them in puppets unless you're Venice. Mosques have grown on me too. Obviously the 1 happiness is worse, but having an instant extra +3 faith is really nice...your next building comes that faster. In this particular case, the religious buildings became most of my faith output, later paying for the future copies of themselves and I didn't build many temples at all due to the maintenance.

I did not seem to have trouble keeping a 6-8 main-city main core as long as I occasionally halted growth. I needed to stop to develop my happiness/science twice I think while I prepared for the next phase of conquest. After taking autocracy there was no stopping me and I completed my world domination. I actually played the religious conquest game, bringing my religion to each new empire I conquered so that later when I annexed I could keep spending my faith. This was an 8-civ map, so a little less than huge, but After autocracy I could've taken AI ad infitum. The happiness bonuses were that good. You might wanna consider 1-city challenge if you like, you auto-raze everything including caps so happiness after puppeting/annexing is a non-issue. You immediately destroy all cities, but the problem is you exceed your unit cap typically.

 

[Loucypher]

While I agree with most of the second post, Pagadoas aren't the best choice for a wide empire even if you are Venice (or else planning on annexing them later) because of how expensive in terms of faith it is to build a copy for each and every city in your empire.
The one giving +2 faith for the boring Temple works much better since you can quickly build this in all cities that you have control over.

And some more detail on razing: If that city has no world wonders and also doesn't have any key tile within 3 hexes that's unique to it (luxury/strategic resource/natural wonder) it's better off razed even if at the moment it's happiness neutral.

Basically take a look at the AI's city placement and decide in advance which of the 2 or 3 cities the AI has planted that have the same luxury within 3 tiles of it should be the one that should work the tile.

About Pagodas, they snowball. While it's true that their initial investment is pretty pricey (And since you probably didn't take Piety, you're behind a bit), if you have a decent faith output, it snowballs. This is really notable in late Medieval, right before the price increase. If you got, say, 6 cities each with a Pagoda, those alone pay for the next pagoda in less than 20 turns, and that's not accounting for any shrines, temples or faith-giving pantheons you might have.
This does ride on you actually getting a faith-granting pantheon OR playing with Celts/Ethiopia/Mayans though.

 

[Zaimejs]

How can you have any science or production if you cap cities at 5? I don't get it.

I just work and work to keep my happiness up. Autocracy helps. Neushchestwesienenrnren helps. Any little boost here and there. I try to save up cash to buy a courthouse ASAP.

It is tricky, and you have to plan for it or else you suffer. I learned not to accept big cities in peace negotiations because those will F up your happiness for a long time.

 

[Robbedem]

Order also has the benefit of Iron Curtain (level 3 tenet)
Iron Curtain: Free Courthouse when capturing a City. +50% 20xFood5 Food or 20xProduction5 Production from domestic trade routes.

 

[docbud]

I still have a problem with happiness, and I play on Prince level.

I'll only have three cities and am doing great, but then unhappiness sets in. And I end up wasting turns and production to build collesiums and zoos. My happiness goes up to +6 and then a turn later drops down to 0.

I think the problem on lower levels is that the AIs don't have any resources to trade.

I usually try to stick it out, but eventually just quit out of frustration.

 

[Robbedem]

How far in the game is that?
It might be that a civilization with a different ideology has more tourism than you.
(check the Public Opinion and Preferred Ideology part of the wiki: http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Ideology_(Civ5))

If it's not that far in game, dont forget:
- Getting luxury recources is the main goal for new cities.
- City states can give luxury resources and happiness too.
- Trade spare recources with other civilizations for recources you don't have. (don't trade away your last resource!)
- Religion can help with happiness too.
- Horses or Ivory allows building a circus -> cheap +2 happiness
- Happiness buildings aren't a waste, build them!

 

[GunJ]

I usually (always) play Immortal as I have no stomach to catch-up to AI on Deity and simply have more fun at this level.
That being said - I have changed some of my bad habits and found that it has helped to cope with happiness drastically (I suppose on any level, but keep in mind I avoid Deity).

- As has already been said - do NOT found too many cities. Old "me" used to settle as many cities as the terrain allowed and this is a recipe for disaster. Usually I settle 3 cities (sometimes but rarely 4) and obtain additional cities with conquest.

- Monitor your surroundings and if You are faced with an aggressive neighbour (Shaka, Alex, Atilla etc.) - anticipate war. In doing so You can settle - let's say 3 cities in such a way that when it gets to war - You conquer and annex the juicy capital as your fourth city. You can raze the rest and leave your enemy with one poor city - preferably in tundra or desert

I am currently playing a game where I spawned next to shaka (bastard was feigning friendship with me) and after the inevitable Zulu invasion - I held my ground and annexed their capital - now effectively my fourth best city. If You settled 4 or 5 cities of Your own and start to annex - You will run into happiness problems.

- Scout aggresively! I almost always open with 2 scouts as the benefits from CSs, and discovery of Natural Wonders help me with happiness when I need it the most - early game.

- Forbidden Palace is one of the wonders I try HARD to get. It reduces the unhappiness by 10% from citizens in your cities.

- When Ideologies come - I almost always go Order (love to make my mines and quarries get 5+ hammers - YUM so at this point You should be ok with happiness - BUT - remember to anticipate Ideology pressure and grab enough tourism (artifacts) to combat the pressure.
I find that when I neglect my artifacts and tourism output - I get blasted by dissidents and pulic opinion penalties yet when I race for archeology sites and keep my tourism on a decent level - I do not run into happiness problems.

Also - autocracy has an obscene amount of tenets helping with happiness - so look into that as well.

Besides that:

- Religion (Pagodas and other buildings)
- Mercantile City states - they are a great source of happiness as well

 

[nokmirt]

If you can get it, autocracy, autocracy, autocracy!

 

[Rivaldo]

Guys the moment you realize that your major opponents (later period) that leading the race and you are more or less at the same size have 22 happiness and you are struggling with -15 to -10 is that exact moment you lose the game.
So I wonder how the hell my AI enemy has done this? At that moment I fount myself questioning what exactly did the AI well that I missed?

 

[blackchimes]

I still have a problem with happiness, and I play on Prince level.

I'll only have three cities and am doing great, but then unhappiness sets in. And I end up wasting turns and production to build collesiums and zoos. My happiness goes up to +6 and then a turn later drops down to 0.

I think the problem on lower levels is that the AIs don't have any resources to trade.

I usually try to stick it out, but eventually just quit out of frustration.

In general, on Prince, since your settler will always start near at least two different luxury resources, you will need on average 1 extra luxury resource per additional city just to offset the city penalty.

AI civs get their luxuries just fine, I think they simply trade very aggresively with each other. Even with all the luxuries improved it's rare to see an AI civ with more than 1 resource still available(and if they have only 1, they will want half your empire to trade it, so it's almost never worth it). On the plus side if you manage to get that trade going, you will be able to keep it going indefinitely - simply renew the deal when it runs out.

Monarchy from the Tradition tree goes a long way to help your happiness.

Patronage -> Consulates is just two policies, and it makes you a permanent Friend of every City-State you've met if you Pledge to Protect them(and why wouldn't you), which is great for... everything really: Culture, Happiness, free units, Food, Religion. Also adopting Patronage unlocks the Forbidden Palace which helps reduce unhappiness further.

And of course, wonders. Notre Dame alone goes a long way.

But in general, it's simply the case of building Colosseums and other happiness buildings. That's just how it is; consider it a "cost" of having more than one city(though even on One City Challenge you want to build them for extra happiness).

 

[docbud]

@robbedem: The game last night was around turn 150. Some games I have really bad happiness issues, and sometimes not. The game last night I was playing as Russia.

@blackchimes: I definitely fill out tradition, and take consulates in Patronage. I definitely try for Notre Dame, but usually the AI grabs it.

The game last night was left at -3 happiness for the longest time. I know I can get out of that once I get to an ideology, but sometimes it just takes so long.

I was landlocked and most of the CSs near me were militaristic.

Like I said, some games I can keep happiness up if I have two cities, but it seems when I go to three or four, it just plummets.

I definitely keep the trade agreements going once I establish them, but in that game, most of the AIs didn't have anything to trade, and just kept offering me 6 gold a turn, which is nice, but doesn't help with happiness.