The People's Republic - A Communist Succession Game

[Terrapin]

Please put me last on the playing list. I still have to get permission to upload/download from work.

 

[CharlieChuck]

I've waited a few days and there's no other new players. If anyone is interested then it's never too late to join.

Here is what i think is the last version of the rules:

• 
  
  Only governments allowed are Despotism -> Monarchy -> Communism.

• 
  No delivering Caravans for trade or food routes. Caravans can only be used for building wonders.

• 
  Colossus, Coppernicus Observatory and Isaacs Newtons, if built, must be in seperate cities.

• 
  Communism can not be reached through the Statue of Liberty, it must be got the hard way

• 
  Deity, random map, 7 civs, Barb Wrath.

• 
  Game can be won by Spaceship or Late Conquest(after Future Tech).

• 
  No aggression towards other nations before Future Tech. We are allowed to protect ourselves and recapture our fallen cities and Barb cities, either by bribe or force. If an AI civ launches before us, we may take any action deemed necessary to stop the AI's ship from landing.

• 
  Tech trading with other civs is allowed and all wonders can be built.

If I've missed or got anything wrong, let me know. I don't mind who starts first, the first couple of turns each will just go as a normal game would. I'll start if no one else wants too.

One thing we haven't discussed that we probably ought to is the Pyramids, do we go for it or not? Considering our only way of growing cities is filling the food box, a granary cuts the time in half and a granary in every city is a lot more expensive than 200 shields (although early game shields are valuable).

 

[Magic_gorter]

I wait till Charlie and Pr. Garfield have played because I played the last turn of the previous succession game.

Rules look fine to me. Pyramids is important to get imo.... without it we can not grow fast and we are not allowed to get it by capturing enemy city.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Yes, we'll want to get Pyramids, probably first priority (the AI likes the wonder). I would also recomend Hanging Gardens, so that we can celebrate some cities and get extra trade. I think that we'll want to develop a core of large cities, so that we can get some decent value from libraries and universities (not to mention marketplaces and banks). Without trade, we'll have to boost our science with improvements.

We should remember that as a monarchy we will have the option to demand tribute, and with a large number of garissons we will have the might to extract techs and money from foreigners.

I think that CharlieChuck should play first.

 

[Terrapin]

Yes, we'll want to get Pyramids, probably first priority (the AI likes the wonder). I would also recomend Hanging Gardens, so that we can celebrate some cities and get extra trade. I think that we'll want to develop a core of large cities, so that we can get some decent value from libraries and universities (not to mention marketplaces and banks). Without trade, we'll have to boost our science with improvements.

Yeah, in some ways, I think the game we are setting out to play is going to be like Civ2 as the designers intended it. It has always struck me that the overwhelming power of trade routes, especially when wedded to the Rep/Dem trade production bonus, is really a flaw in the game design. I tend to believe (with no real evidence) that Meier et al meant trade to supplement science and gold production from cities, not the other way around.

I agree with the Profs strategy notes. However, it will be very interesting to see if we can actually build both the Pyramids and HG. They are both high ai priorities.

Although I suggested ICS as a strategy, and still think it would be the best way to get a fast start, I am more than happy to go with a core of large cities. In my own games, I have not been using mass expansion much, at least not before the late game, because I am a super anal retentive micro-manager and do not relish having to cycle through 100+ cities every turn.

 

[Magic_gorter]

Although I suggested ICS as a strategy, and still think it would be the best way to get a fast start, I am more than happy to go with a core of large cities. In my own games, I have not been using mass expansion much, at least not before the late game, because I am a super anal retentive micro-manager and do not relish having to cycle through 100+ cities every turn.

For not making lots of units (at least no caravans or freight) there is not a lot micromanagement left.....

To get pyramids and mayby HG we might start the first cities as ICS but one extra turn to move the settler (to get more growing space for the city) might be handy later in the game.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

We have a few strategy choices. We can do ICS, we can do more or less full size cities, or we can have a core of large cities with ICS once corruption starts to take a large bite.

If we do the middle road choice, we can either set up our core around our starting position, or we can later move our capital to better suited land. Alternatively, we can start ICS, and eventually disband the "surplus" cities in our core, leaving room for a few large cities. If we do this last choice (quite possibly the best option if we have a lot of river near our start location), the smaller cities will grow faster and we will get extra population to join into our large cities when the time comes.

 

[Terrapin]

I will go last, so the early strategy is up to you guys. I will follow on as best I can.

 

[CharlieChuck]

Yeah, in some ways, I think the game we are setting out to play is going to be like Civ2 as the designers intended it. It has always struck me that the overwhelming power of trade routes, especially when wedded to the Rep/Dem trade production bonus, is really a flaw in the game design. I tend to believe (with no real evidence) that Meier et al meant trade to supplement science and gold production from cities, not the other way around.

I agree with this, and this was how I played for years until I discovered this site and that playing in a way you wouldn't expect reaps rewards. What we really do with ICS and trade is take advantage of the flaws in a way that isn't obvious.

I agree with the Profs strategy notes. However, it will be very interesting to see if we can actually build both the Pyramids and HG. They are both high ai priorities.

I'd be surprised if we manage both, Pyramids especially seems to be the AI's first choice so it should be quite a race.

For not making lots of units (at least no caravans or freight) there is not a lot micromanagement left.....

I think the middle years will be quicker than a normal game, but the later years will probably take a lot longer.

If we do the middle road choice, we can either set up our core around our starting position, or we can later move our capital to better suited land. Alternatively, we can start ICS, and eventually disband the "surplus" cities in our core, leaving room for a few large cities. If we do this last choice (quite possibly the best option if we have a lot of river near our start location), the smaller cities will grow faster and we will get extra population to join into our large cities when the time comes.

There's a real trade off between largeish city ICS and a few big cities, for libraries and universities to work effectively we need larger cities, but the cost of building all these improvements I think may be too much, but if we have too many small cities the library's and science produced won't be powerful enough. I think We need somewhere in the middle, but we'll have to watch disorder from having too many cities under Monarchy.

I'll start a game at the weekend if that's Ok, it shouldn't take long to play 10 turns.

 

[Terrapin]

Putting together CC's comments and Magic Gorter's, I think we have no problem: We won't have 'vans to build, so we can put our cities to building markets, libraries and universities instead. If we have some bigger cities, it may be worthwhile to build Banks and even Stock Markets to increase luxuries so we can leave the science rate up, something I virtually never do.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Quote:
I agree with the Profs strategy notes. However, it will be very interesting to see if we can actually build both the Pyramids and HG. They are both high ai priorities.

I'd be surprised if we manage both, Pyramids especially seems to be the AI's first choice so it should be quite a race.

I think we can make it if we don't build MPE first; Trade is high enough up the tech tree that there probably won't be immediate competition for it. On the other hand, if we don't meet anyone, we'll have to research both pottery and masonry ourselves, making that 2 extra techs to research, though that can be done while building the caravans. Then again, I usually get Mike's in relatively short order after MPE, so accumulating 600 shields is not an extraordinary challenge in the early game. Also, the caravans can converge on different cities, instead of having to get 8 to the same one. With MPE, we could keep 4 caravans beside a city and keep a close eye on foreign wonder production. If a nation is close to completing either Hanging Gardens or Pyramids and doesn't have the tech for the other wonder we could complete the "threatened" wonder while we continue to amass caravans for the other.

I think we'll have to play a few rounds to get an idea of our capabilities and we should carefully watch (and post) the wonder information we get on the computers.

 

[CharlieChuck]

4000 bc. A group of nomads decide it's time to abandon their life of lawlessness and roaming and they attempt to build a city which they hope will one day grow into an empire, perhaps the greatest empire. They decide upon the name China for their new land and hope one day that they can build a nation run by the people for the people.


-4000 No free techs, 2 settlers, No visible specials, mountain to right of area with hut on top, hope the mountain's a one off, move 1 settler north, Beijing founded, Start building settler

-3950 start Cer Burial

-3900 hut = 50g, rush warrior

-3850 warrior exploring, start settler,

-3800 ...

-3750 set worker to fish, was only producing 1 arrow

-3700 Rush 6 shields, change worker to road

-3650 find whale 147,43

-3600 ...

-3550 Fish found 148,36


We should discover Cer Burial next turn, I was going for the quickest route to Monarchy. It's not possible to use fish and whale together in same city, I don't know if there may another special to the NW of the warrior or not? There's enough room for two cities in the west part using a special each, they overlap a little, but that shouldn't be a problem. The terrain to the east may not be too clever, but at least the shield production from it will be good. I've had no messages about AI starting to build wonders yet.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

(0) 3550 BC: Decide to have Beijing work forest instead of grassland with road; would rather have settler completed sooner over a few extra coins.

(1) 3500 BC: Ceremonial Burial, begin Alphabet. Move settler towards new city site (to work whale). Move Warrior to Beijing to conduct martial law when the city grows.

(2) 3450 BC: …

(3) 3400 BC: Warrior arrives in Beijing, settler on planned city site.

(4) 3350 BC: Beijing grows to size 2, new citizen worked the grassland with road. Move that worker to ocean for 1 turn. Build Shanghai, work whale, begin settler.

(5) 3300 BC: Move ocean worker to grassland with road.

(6) 3250 BC: …

(7) 3200 BC: Beijing builds Settlers. Move warriors towards Shanghai. Move settlers north. Rush 1 shield on Shanghai settler. Have Beijing work the grassland with road, begin warrior.

(8) 3150 BC: …

(9) 3100 BC: Move settler north-east. Will let Shanghai settler settle near the fish.

(10) 3050 BC: Alphabet, begin Bronze working; Code of laws not available. Warrior reaches Shanghai. Move Settler north east.

Notes: The warrior should be re-homed to Shanghai to save on support. I decided not to found immediately near the fish, because letting the Shanghai settler (when completed) settle there will save it walking time. I’m also hopeful that we find a whale near the coast. Beijing is building another warrior for exploration, since the one we have will probably shuffle between cities to prevent size 2 disorder. I also notice that we are on the “dateline,” so it is possible that we will find some unusual special patterns, and also be able to double-work a few squares, like (149,41). I received no wonder messages.

 

[Magic_gorter]

looks like we have resource seed 45…
3050 BC -
3000 BC -
2950 BC -
2900 BC founded Canton
2850 BC RB setler in Shanghai / warrior in Beijing build which goes exploring
2800 BC settler in Shanghai / RB first 10 shields for settler in Beijing
2750 BC -
2700 BC -
2650 BC -
2600 BC -
2550 BC Bronze Working->Code of Laws / did not move warriors>is for next to decide what to do with them. The settler is on the place where I think the next city should be build.

Still no message of wonder building by others.....

Terrapin should be next if he's allowed to upload at work....please let soon know so we can continue the game....

 

[Bloody Monk]

Hello to my Civ2 brothers!!

Magic_g dropped a notice at Poly about the SG action going on here. Made me very happy to learn that others were still playing this wonderful game. Before I got too sick to play/post regularly I loved playing SGs. I would love to join in the commentary and early-stage playing. Can't really/realistically commit to playing much at the end when the turns start taking hours at a time...just can't do it any more, at least not in a timely manner. Actually, that time may come later in this game, what with no trade and delayed conquest, so I'm good to go for a some time.

If you all accept me in the game I would be most pleased and you can slot me in where ever.

Monk

 

[Prof. Garfield]

As far as I understand, we are still accepting players, so you might as well play next, unless Terrapin posts first that he has the game. We'll worry about the late game when it comes, but we've taken considerable time between late rounds in the past.

 

[Bloody Monk]

OK. I play now and post tonight.

Please tell me how to post the .sav....

Monk

 

[Bloody Monk]

Explored a little and built some cities (we now have 6). I don't recall where on this size map the next city starts in or causes a redhead...but I think it is the 7th, especially in a city without a troop. So, be careful building more cities until we are a Monarchy. That's why I set the Shanghi worker to roading.

I built two cities as outlets/canals for our two inland lakes. The grass tile at (7,45) looks good for a city to work the Birds.

I took a chance entering a village, but it was on swamp so I thought the odds were good for a Nomad. That worked out but I would have avoided entering a plains/grass village in order not to (potentially) delay getting to Monarchy.

As noted in the log the Germans are attempting the Great Pile of Stones offering to the Food gods. The yagya began in 2250.

log:
2500 - Nanking (1,37) built as suggested where he stood.

2400 - Nomad from Hut (17,43) on a swamp.

2350 - StraybowCanal built on grass providing an ocean outlet for an inland sea. (Named for a legendary canal builder.) Change support for first Beijing troop to StraybowCanal. Beijing builds Settler.

2250 - German folk start Pyramid.

2200 - Xinjian (1,47) another canal city.

2150 - Code --> Monarchy Sha builds Sett, Bei a troop.

2050 - Sha Sett roading. Nan builds war --> Sett.

We are moving right along. Really out of practice typing and I don't see so well any more...so, it took about twice as long for the report as for the gameplay.

Monk

 

[Magic_gorter]

Great to see you joining this SG Bloody Monk.

So we will get a hard time getting the Pyramids.....it will take some turns to get trade for wondercaravans so perhaps it's better to start a wonder somewhere where there are enough shields.....when we can build the pyramids we can switch to it.
What should be better...trying to learn masonry after monarchy or going for trade??? and then monarchy...

 

[Prof. Garfield]

At size 3 under Monarchy, Beijing can produce 7 shields (if it has enough martial law support. I suggest that we start the Colossus in Beijing and research Masonry as soon as possible. It may take too long after trade to get Masonry, and we might miss out on the wonder. When we get Masonry, we might be able to "trick" the Germans into switching to Great Wall by building that instead of the Pyramids.