The Player Leaves...

[Cyc]

So, I guess I should start this conversation. If the player leaves the turn chat, for whatever reason, should there be a process to replace him/her with another player? Should that process be put in the constitution to protect the attendees? What if the Player's computer goes down, should they restart the game, as there will be no save to upload and play later? What if there is a save but the attendees can't get to it, should they restart the last save and step through the initial chat log? Should they be confined to duplicating the initial chat log? What if the original Player comes back? Can he/she claim the right to play? Should all this be in the constitution or should it be handled on a case by case - play it by ear - basis?

 

[Grey Fox]

I think we should never Replay anything that don't need to. If someone stops playing, he/she needs to give the save to someone else that are to take over.


If however, a save should be corrupt. The game should be replayed with the exact pattern, to recreate the outcome.

 

[donsig]

I agree we shouldn't replay unless there are computer problems but there should be a mechanism in place for transferring the game during turn chat if need be.

We had a 3 beer delay in the last turn chat while General Falcon did some chores.

 

[disorganizer]

i got two proposals:
1.) posting per turn
maybe the player should post a save for every game-turn he plays during turn-chat (he could replace them in the same post though). this takes only a small amount of time (save, zip, post), but it would enable the others to download and look at it and it would be a safety-copy...
if we get a corrupt save we will only have to replay the last game-turn
2.) replay only if save is totally lost, not if it is unaccessible.
if save is only unavailable, turn-chat should be suspended till available

 

[Immortal]

The first idea would suck up too much space on the forums upload space, I like the status Quo (nearly identical to the second point).

 

[disorganizer]

if we replace the save every game-turn, it would take the space of one save... as this would be in the same place the last save would finally be placed, we would take a plus of 0 bytes.

 

[Cyc]

No, actually when you upload a file to the server, if it has the same name as an existing file, the server will change the new files name slightly. Therefore each save would take up the original upload size, filling the server up.

 

[disorganizer]

and if you select "replace attachment" on the bottom of the post? this would make no sense!
otherwise, maybe someone offers an ftp-server with 5mb free for us.

 

[Shaitan]

As I understand it, the file server is totally separate from the Forum server. When you attach to a post with the java upload (while making the post) this is handled by the Forum server. When you go through the file upload process (where you can upload several files at once) the files are held on a drive with very much space. This second one is what Cyc was talking about. For error checking and to prevent overwrites of other people files, the upload manager will rename any upload that is already on the file server. The one Disorganizer is talking about is handled differently and I do not know if that deletes the old file or not when you use the "replace" option.

 

[disorganizer]

DOF or DOM (or TF), if you read this could you please clarify?

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

There are two ways a file can be attached to a post.

The first is in the message directly using the attachment feature. That posts the file directly to the forum server. If you replace the file from your post, it deletes the old file from the server. So, updating the file would not take any extra room, since it would just be replacing an existing file.

If you wanted to keep all of your game files in the posts, you can use the 'Upload File' feature that is at the bottom of every page. It posts it to a separate server, but can only be deleted by TF. I think once it starts to fill up he will begin deleting the very old stuff first (if ever). This gives you two benefits. It allows you to keep the entire history of saved games and you can access the files if the forum is ever down. However, I don't don't know if this is an issue with this game, but anyone can access the files if they know they are there.

 

[disorganizer]

so finally, my solution would work...
would it be practicable though?

 

[Chieftess]

You can also send the file via the chat room (if you're using something like mIRC). It just happened today when tGF couldn't play (cable probably broke), and I had to leave close to the end of the pre-turn.

 

[Shaitan]

I think that updating after each turn would be workable.

 

[Cyc]

OK. So if the player leaves, for whatever reason, then the COC is used to replace that player, and the last save is loaded up by the new player? If no explanation is given for the first players dissappearance (computer went down, etc.) should they wait 10 minutes? 15 minutes? Should they be required to duplicate the moves on the chat log up to the time of leaving or disappearance?
What if the first player comes back and wants to take back the positon of player? If the player has to leave and has a good explanation why, can the other attendees take control of the game after 10 - 15 minutes? immediately? Should all this be put in the Constitution?

 

[Shaitan]

Proposal:

1. If the player leaves, they pass the game and control to the next person in the COC.
2. If they disappear, wait 10 minutes then the next person on the COC plays from the last save game.
3. Once a player is playing, they are the Designated Player. Returning players do not resume the game once someone else is playing.
4. If a game has to be used that is not current then the moves from the chat log must be duplicated.
5. The game should be uploaded after turn 0 and then after every 5 turns.

The first three are similar to items already in the Constitution - a bit of rewording would take care of those. The last two would need to be added.

#5 is a stripped down version of disorganizer's idea. His would be the optimal, the one above would be the minimum. I'd be happy with either of these. I stressed the post turn 0 save as turn 0 is generally half of the turn chat.

Thoughts? Especially on uploading the saves. I think that's a great idea and should be implemented in some form.

EDIT: The uploads during the chat will have benefits besides protecting against game loss when a DP gets disconnected. They'll also allow the other people in the chat who are helping the DP to open a more current version of what he's looking at.

 

[Cyc]

I like it, Shaitan. Your proposal seems to cover everyone's questions and suggestions.

 

[disorganizer]

i also like it. but with the "upload all turn-saves" version. this would also eliminate the "changed dices" problem when replaying from chatlog.
when the game is saved, the dices already were rolled, so there will be the same outcomes when replaying.
if we use a 5-turn-save, from turn 2-5 there will be differen outcomes if we replay.

 

[Shaitan]

The pseudo random number strings probably aren't going to be a large concern. As the DP doesn't record every attack it won't be possible to recreate even one battle except by dumb luck.

Uploading each turn would keep any inconsistency to a single turn at most though where the minimum proposal could make a very large difference over 5 turns.

 

[Shaitan]

I think we're ready for a poll here. I'll do the following format:

Proposal 1 (as I posted)
Proposal 2 (with upload each turn)
Other
None (keep it as it is)
Abstain

I'll post this after the Mods have incorporated the amendment into the Constitution thread. I don't want to start a new process when people will still be referring back to the old Constitution for reference.