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The science of worker stealing?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Korgoth420, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. Korgoth420

    Korgoth420 Chieftain

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    Does anyone have good numbers on worker stealing?
    As a warrior how many hits can you take and live?
    As a scout?

    Thanks
     
  2. Luven

    Luven Chieftain

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    In my experiance a Warrior can take a hit from a city and one Warrior Turn 10-20 on any terrain. even if the city is on a Hill. Next turn run 2 tiles and your save as long as you dont get flanked.

    Not sure if a Scout can on flat terrain but he surely can if worker is on hill, forest.
     
  3. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

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    The weakest is a scout on a flat land. You have less chance to steal a worker if there's a warrior near the city (90 % of dead scout and fail to steal worker). If it's an archer, your scout is over but you keep the worker.
    AI target unit who stole a worker, others are not considered.
    If there's two units (2 warriors or warrior and archer), don't steal worker. You'll lose unit and worker.
     
  4. Novalia

    Novalia Prince

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    When exploring with your initial warrior and scout try to time a visit to a CS around turn 20. When you DOW a CS the initial hate is -60... You don't have to make peace straight away as that counter begins counting back to 0 immediately whether you make peace or stay at war. You could snag another worker or two in the time it takes the influence to level out. You just won't get any quests in the meantime.
     
  5. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    At about what time on Immortal can we expect a CS to pop out its first worker? How long will it take after the steal to make a 2nd worker?

    Also, if I DOW and AI civ to steal a worker, how soon can I make peace with them?

    thx .. neilkaz ..
     
  6. victorpras

    victorpras Chieftain

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    Depending on its terrain, Immortal CS usually has a worker around turn 25-30. Coastal CS sometimes likes to build fishing boat first, so may not have any worker until turn 40+.

    I never take more than 1 worker, so I am not sure the answer to that.

    You can make peace immediately in the same turn you declare war.
     
  7. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    The problem on Immortal and lower levels is that the AI will often have pledged to protect the CS before it spits out a worker, which raises the stakes for worker stealing.
     
  8. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    This is why, if possible, I DoW the first CS I meet that I don't care about. (Usually military, otherwise depends on VC)

    If you DoW them before people protect them you can wander back and steal N workers when they spawn with no diplomacy hit.
     
  9. hr_oskar

    hr_oskar Deity

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    You can make peace on the same turn you steal the worker. However, staying at war with the CS can be a good option sometimes as you can potentially wait for it to produce more workers for you to steal. You can reasonably get 2-3 workers out of the CS in this way, at the cost of tying up one of your units. Best way to steal additional workers is to use a scout (ideally ruin-upgraded) and hide behind a hill or forest as the AI fails to account for the unit's ability to ignore rough terrain.
     
  10. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    I LIKE this! Don't know why it never occurred to me.... :crazyeye:
     
  11. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    its just only a good idea if the CS´s lux or res tile is easy "stealable" like some cotton 2 tiles from city away on flat land.
    But if its gold on some back hill u ll have problem to steal the workers after.

    So choose well which CS u try to be your "worker" factory - also i d rather dow a unfriendly military one a a religious friendly one ..
     
  12. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    Right, good point. I forgot to mention how important the steal approach is. I kind of take that part for granted now. CS with most of their tiles at sea or on an island are usually a bad idea. CS on hills are non-ideal. CS that only your scout can steal from are non-ideal. Especially if the steal spot is flatland. I want to farm that CS for 4+ workers over time. And if I need a scout to steal from a flatland tile (because of rough terrain in the approach) it stops working once they get an archer or walls. This is why I recommend people just practice worker-stealing.. too many little things you have to learn from experience I think.

    If I don't find a good CS to DoW, I wait, because it's better to get some diplo hate than DoW the wrong CS early. Sometimes a CS won't spawn a worker for 10+ turns longer than you'd expect, either due to fishing boat tiles, or being plagued by barbs... so it can be better to just DoW when a CS nearby actually has a worker out. Sometimes. (Still I almost never DoW a protected CS)

    AI are a better source of workers even on lower difficulties. And even though it takes them longer to get them out than it would on Immortal+, it's better, because they don't give quests, and on low difficulty levels they don't have any money anyway, so they're not great trading partners. Besides, on the really low levels, they'll offer you stuff in the peace deal. ;)
     
  13. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

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    Barbs camps are also a good source of free workers.
     
  14. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    Oh yes...I like to leave ones near my capitol as long as there's any chance that they can steal a worker from somewhere else that I can then easily capture when I bust the camp.
     
  15. TurboJ

    TurboJ Warlord

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    What are the limits of how much you can steal from city states before you get a diplomatic penalty?
    And what about if you are only concerned about you relation with CSs and not other civs - are the penalties different? How about using a city state to farm XP for your troops? What would be the diplomatic penalty for a continuous war with a CS?
     
  16. hr_oskar

    hr_oskar Deity

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    You get a diplomatic penalty for declaring war on a CS (and of course if any civ is protecting the CS you make that civ even angrier). But as long as you don't actually take the city, there is no penalty for anything that may happen during the war. You can spend your time stealing every single worker that comes out of the CS, shooting its health down to 0 and pillaging all of its tiles, without anyone saying a thing; even if the AI's pledge to protect the CS after you DoW it there's no diplomatic penalty. Furthermore you are actually recovering influence with the CS while at war, so if you make peace sufficiently long after you started the war, you will be back to 0 influence. For this reason I often stay at war with the first CS I declare war on, so that I can steal multiple workers from it.

    If you ever declare war twice on a CS your resting point with nearby CS's (or is it all CS's on the map?) will drop down by 20 points. That's the only consequence I recall. Don't know if there are further penalties if you were to declare on a third or fourth CS, since I never tried doing that.
     
  17. TurboJ

    TurboJ Warlord

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    Sorry for getting a bit OT here but the theme is the same;
    so I remember like two years ago there was this golden rule that you should never, ever steal more than one worker, or that taking a worker from two different city states would be a big no-no. Are you saying the city states don't have any other diplomatic status than their 'bar of green or red' ? So I could wage war with a city state for all eternity and thus grind an elite army and pillage as much as I liked? Hmm....

    So what about actually conquering a city state - the other ones will develop special anger from that, won't they?
     
  18. Novalia

    Novalia Prince

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    ^^^^^^^^
     
  19. hr_oskar

    hr_oskar Deity

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    Conquering a city state earns you an "EXTREME warmonger penalty", so in terms of diplo with the major civs it's a very bad idea. I've never done it myself, just don't see the point at all. I wouldn't expect it to have a consequence for your relationship with other CS's (provided it's the one and only CS you've declared war on), but since I've never tried it I don't even know.

    But yeah, if there was once a reason to only steal one worker, that reason is gone now; I almost never make peace straight away, and if I expected to only be able to get one worker from a CS I might not even do it at all... well okay it would be better than not stealing any worker from anyone, but I try to target a CS that I can reasonably steal 3-4 workers from.
     
  20. TurboJ

    TurboJ Warlord

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    I must confirm one thing though: On the current patch of BNW as far as the CS war is on-going, your diplo with the CS in question will rest at -60 (I have this going on as I play right now) and it seems they have patched also the exploit where the CS AI didn't realise your scout could rush through rough terrain. So the second worker seems to be much more difficult to apprehend. I guess I'll have to wait until the CS borders come further out and the workers are forced out more :)
     

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