The Scots discovered the New World Before Columbus!

Pangur Bán

Pangur Bán

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The evidence I've looked at so far seems to make it certain that a Scottish ruler of Orkney, Prince Henry Sinclair, got to the Americas before the Iberians (and Chinese!), albeit after the Vikings. Sinclair and the Venetian merchant Zeno made an expedition to Greenland, Estotilanda (Nova Scotia) and as far as Massachusetts. The voyage seems to have left a 14th century lighthouse mistaken until recently for a mill and a commemorative engraving of the Templar style (the sinclairs or St Clairs were a Templar family).
Tell me what you think, I don't know much about it, but clearly the voyage took place and clearly the Scots were in the Americas long before Columbas. Interesting point: Columbus would clearly have known about this expedition being a fellow Italian on the Italian explorer/merchant network, when he sailed to the New World was he intending to reach Massachusetts? It would perhaps explain why he was so confident the voyage would be shorter.

BTW, I should point out that historically I should not call them Scots, although de facto the Orkney rulers had to acknowledge Scottish authority and nominal Norweigan overlordship (they weren't officially ceded to Scotland until 1472), the Orkneys functioned like an independent state.

Here are some links (these have been chosen randomly, there are 1000s more):

http://www.renaissancemagazine.com/backissues/sinclair.html

http://www.renfrewmasons.org/ZENO.htm

http://www.clansinclairusa.org/gatherings/clan_gat_orksymp.html

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/3883/temple007.html
 
I was going to mention the Vikings, but you covered it.

Im not 100% sure about this current theory, but it sounds plausible.
 
Well, Basque, English, and French fishermen knew about the Newfoundland fisheries long before Cabot "found" them, so it's certainly possible.

There is even indication the English and Scandanavia were well aware of America, but kept it as a state secret, to protect their fishing industries from the Iberians and French (the Basques wern't really part of either, to this day they want their own nation).
 
Irish monks were already settled in iceland before the Vikings arrived.
And there is a tale that tells of a monk called St. Brendan who went on an expedition to find the Promised Land of the Saints, and supposedly found Americia, 1000 years before Columbus.

Sounds like crap, but i remember watching a documentory on it were this guy took this monks charts and plans, made the boat to spec, and followed the same route without using modern equipment. (The boat was no more than a glorified rowing boat).
He found Americia. It took him ages though.
 
Has anybody heard about the thoery that the Ancient Egptians had contact with Americia?

More crap! I hear you cry.
Apparently scientists conducted tests on the mummys and found traces of cocaine. Which was only found in the Americias.

(Yep, another documentory) It was a good one though that gave a whole argument for it, and just in case you are wondering, it wasn't one of those aliens made the pyramids shows.

I can't remember much about it though, and never bothered to read up on it.
 
Originally posted by gael
Has anybody heard about the thoery that the Ancient Egptians had contact with Americia?

More crap! I hear you cry.
Apparently scientists conducted tests on the mummys and found traces of cocaine. Which was only found in the Americias.

(Yep, another documentory) It was a good one though that gave a whole argument for it, and just in case you are wondering, it wasn't one of those aliens made the pyramids shows.

I can't remember much about it though, and never bothered to read up on it.
Click to expand...

I don't know anything about that, but, on the other hand, the Egyptians got the Phoenicians to circumnavigate Africa, and if it weren't for one mention in Herodotus, we'd never have known.
 
Originally posted by gael
Has anybody heard about the thoery that the Ancient Egptians had contact with Americia?

More crap! I hear you cry.
Apparently scientists conducted tests on the mummys and found traces of cocaine. Which was only found in the Americias.

(Yep, another documentory) It was a good one though that gave a whole argument for it, and just in case you are wondering, it wasn't one of those aliens made the pyramids shows.

I can't remember much about it though, and never bothered to read up on it.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I always get a laugh out of those alien conspiracy nutjobs.
 
we've been all over this I think.....if I remember correctly there were some leads (no proofs though) to an Irish monk in the 8th century, some Chinese fisherguy (not the general) and even egyptians and phoenicians....fact is that only Columbus made a big deal of it, and maybe the Vikings.
 
Originally posted by willemvanoranje
we've been all over this I think.....if I remember correctly there were some leads (no proofs though) to an Irish monk in the 8th century, some Chinese fisherguy (not the general) and even egyptians and phoenicians....fact is that only Columbus made a big deal of it, and maybe the Vikings.
Click to expand...

In this case, though, the case seems to be quite clearly favorable. You have archaeological evidence, literary evidence, anthropological evidence, etc. The only difference between Sinclair & Zeno and Columbus seems to have been that Columbas' backers had the power and resources to make it a permanent thing, whereas Orkney was not Spain.

No serious historian doubts that Europeans reached America before Columbas, there is too much evidence all round. The notion that Columbus was the first European to discover America is a historical curiosity now, no longer a likely suggestion
 
Originally posted by willemvanoranje
we've been all over this I think.....if I remember correctly there were some leads (no proofs though) to an Irish monk in the 8th century, some Chinese fisherguy (not the general) and even egyptians and phoenicians....fact is that only Columbus made a big deal of it, and maybe the Vikings.
Click to expand...

In this case, though, the case seems to be quite clearly favorable. You have archaeological evidence, literary evidence, anthropological evidence, etc. The only difference between Sinclair & Zeno and Columbus seems to have been that Columbas' backers had the power and resources to make it a permanent thing, whereas Orkney was not Spain.

No serious historian doubts that Europeans reached America before Columbas, there is too much evidence all round. The notion that Columbus was the first European to discover America is a historical curiosity, no longer a likely suggestion.
 
I think it is proven that the Vikings have landed on the new land as well by archeological evidence and viking writings, right?
 
Originally posted by willemvanoranje
I think it is proven that the Vikings have landed on the new land as well by archeological evidence and viking writings, right?
Click to expand...

Yeh, there is the Vinland Saga and Viking settlements have been found.

For the Scottish case, Northern Scottish/Scandinavian style lighthouse is still standing in Massachusetts and a 14th century canon was found in Louisburg harbour. The so-called "narrative of Zeno" details parts of a voyage there plus the map.
 
I think i heard that there was some very, very old Irish artifacts found in Americia too.
The Vikings could of had these with them though,... or maybe this was Guinness archeology i was hearing in a pub (?)
Come to think of it, i also heard that night that Niell Armstrong celibrated his landing on the moon in the local lunar Irish bar.

I think the other guy was in the shuttle snorting coke with the Egptians.
 
When the Vikings came to Orkney and Shetland Islands, there were Irish monks there. When they reached Iceland, lo and behold, there are the monks again!
Whats to say they didn't reach Greenland and America before the norse as well? I know its a hell of a long way to travel if all you have is a rowing boat, but still. :P

As to the Viking landings in America, there have been archeological findings in a place called L'anse aux meadows, in Newfoundland, that clearly proves their presence in the area.
 
Originally posted by superunknown
When the Vikings came to Orkney and Shetland Islands, there were Irish monks there. When they reached Iceland, lo and behold, there are the monks again!
Whats to say they didn't reach Greenland and America before the norse as well? I know its a hell of a long way to travel if all you have is a rowing boat, but still. :P

As to the Viking landings in America, there have been archeological findings in a place called L'anse aux meadows, in Newfoundland, that clearly proves their presence in the area.
Click to expand...

yep!
 
OK, it's possible that others got there before Colombus, but the important thing here, I think it's already been mentioned, but anyway, The important thing is that even though they knew, they
 
OK, it's possible that others got there before Colombus, but the important thing here, I think it's already been mentioned, but anyway, The important thing is that even though they knew, they DIDN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!!!! Yes, the Vikings made settlements, but that wasn't much. Besides, they were chased by the Indians(or what they prefered to be called today).

In addition, even though Colombus knew of that Zeno guy, it's a well known fact that he belived he'd discoverd a sea route to India until his death. That he thought it was shorter than it was, was because he wasn't too good in math....
 
Originally posted by calgacus


Yeh, there is the Vinland Saga and Viking settlements have been found.
Click to expand...

But wasn't the Vinland Saga proved to be a fake???
 
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