The Sid Virgins Try Sid Again (settings TBD)
- Thread starter Own
- Start date
Own said:I didn't like this strategy before, because even if we kill an opponent, we'll have exhausted ourselves and likely gotten in a techhole. But, in a thread DocT said it's the easiest way to beat sid, and DocT is a great player, one of the 7+1 as well. My mind is changed.
With army and cats, we can expect very few loss, so we don't exhaust ourselves (unlike archer rush). I think the general philosophy of this strategy is that you can wage a war efficiently when your techhole is not too huge:
math + bronze working + warrior code can deal with AI up to feudalism;
math + iron working -> gunpowder;
feudalism (+engineering if possible) -> nationalism;
military tradition + nationalism -> replacebale parts.
Things would break down when AI gets tank. I guess that fighting tank without tank would be too tough, -- but who knows?
So yes, I agree with Doc T that this hardcore warmonger way is the easiest (and the safest) way to beat sid.
I don't like them much, they've got that nasty 20 shield scout that can't do anything a normal scout couldn't.
Most optimistic? It happens all the time. When you go for super early contacts, you meet the AIs when they only have their starting techs. Their tech costs are the same for you, just their growth spurt (extra settlers and workers) at the beginning, ability to get bigger, and better trading is what makes them go fast. Being in a tech lead in the middle ages is not unusual for me on 60% archipelago (which is like continents).
Most optimistic? It happens all the time. When you go for super early contacts, you meet the AIs when they only have their starting techs. Their tech costs are the same for you, just their growth spurt (extra settlers and workers) at the beginning, ability to get bigger, and better trading is what makes them go fast. Being in a tech lead in the middle ages is not unusual for me on 60% archipelago (which is like continents).
Own said:
Yeah, chasquis are expensive, but they are indeed faster than normal scouts. You do like to go through mountains and hills to see furthur, and from time to time you meet barbarian, so chasquis' special abilities are not wasteful, I guess.
Before I inserted NoAIPatrol=0, I often found many trade opportunities. But after adding that, I see that AIs become knowledge terribly fast. OK, maybe we just need to send scout to be even faster. If not Inca, which one do you like? Mongol and Zulu, warrior code is also too cheap; Russia, every one will go for bronze working at full speed; Arab, CB is the cheapest; the great Portugal, often regarded as THE worst civ; Hittites, poor 3MC ...
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
lurker's comment: please choose Zulu, the scout and impi can be great AA "misleads" because of their 2 movement, and the impi will be able to defend itself unlike the scout.i think this is called the "bikini babe trick?" or something like that?
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
lurker's comment: Or if you are going for just a victory for knowing that you beat Sid, choose Dutch on Archipelago 
I would really like to play a MIL civ to get lots of armies. We need armies if we want to win. So we have to choose from Aztecs, Germany, China and Rome. Other MIL civs have a crappy second trait, so i didn't list them. Unfortunately none of MIL civs have a great early UU, jag is not so good in c3c, otherwise aztecs would be a clear leader. Advantages of teh civs listed:
Aztecs - great second trait, can launch GA early to pump out archers at a great speed, but crappy starting techs.
Germany - decent second trait, can build spears from the start. But useless UU.
China - decent second trait, great UU. If only we survive to early MA. Decent tech for trading.
Rome - start with alphabet, decent UU.
I would go for china or aztecs.
To answer the question why an archer rush is better then a defensive war:
We will have fewer losses in defense, but we will also do much less damage, so we'll get fewer things in the peace deal. Also if we are planning to go ahead only when we have a lot of cats the AI will be very far ahead (we would need to get math and build lots of units) and will have very good defense.
I'll try a few starts as china and aztecs now.
Aztecs - great second trait, can launch GA early to pump out archers at a great speed, but crappy starting techs.
Germany - decent second trait, can build spears from the start. But useless UU.
China - decent second trait, great UU. If only we survive to early MA. Decent tech for trading.
Rome - start with alphabet, decent UU.
I would go for china or aztecs.
To answer the question why an archer rush is better then a defensive war:
We will have fewer losses in defense, but we will also do much less damage, so we'll get fewer things in the peace deal. Also if we are planning to go ahead only when we have a lot of cats the AI will be very far ahead (we would need to get math and build lots of units) and will have very good defense.
I'll try a few starts as china and aztecs now.
soul_warrior
Termite!
im in, just not available till monday.
will read this though then.
dont care about settings.
why not all random (except world size?)
i would prefer AZTECS. i want a win with them. (maya could be nice too - i LOVE those captured slaves)
will read this though then.
dont care about settings.
why not all random (except world size?)
i would prefer AZTECS. i want a win with them. (maya could be nice too - i LOVE those captured slaves)
OK, i tried an average start as china and played 50 turns. Build order was barracks->archer->archer... Worker built several basic improvements and a road to our neighbours. When Beijing grew to size 4 i joined the worker and started working 2 forests for 10spt:
Unfortunately we were surrounded by sci civs (korea and persia), so we had to face many spears. I chose korea because they were closer. I only managed to trade BW for Masonry, which allowed to build several spears. I completed a min-run on Alphabet and started another min-run on Writing.
I attacked declared on Korea and attacked Seoul with 7 archer covered with a spear. RNG was not kind and all archers died attacking 2 spears, but our spear finished teh last redlined defender off. I also razed another korean city that they built on our road to allow our troops to move freely. I made peace for 3 cities.
The situation in korea now:
I trapped a korean spear stack inside our territory so that we can make them declare on us whenever we like:
The minimap:
I fully agree with the military advisor
:
We have 5 archers near new korean capital and 2 more will arrive next turn. I think 7 archers should be enough to do the job, so we should boot the koreans to make them declare in a few turns. Note that our new cities are not defended, i didn't bother about that because they are quite useless as the AI pop-rushed them to total unhappiness.
The save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/china_sid_1750BC.SAV
Unfortunately we were surrounded by sci civs (korea and persia), so we had to face many spears. I chose korea because they were closer. I only managed to trade BW for Masonry, which allowed to build several spears. I completed a min-run on Alphabet and started another min-run on Writing.
I attacked declared on Korea and attacked Seoul with 7 archer covered with a spear. RNG was not kind and all archers died attacking 2 spears, but our spear finished teh last redlined defender off. I also razed another korean city that they built on our road to allow our troops to move freely. I made peace for 3 cities.
The situation in korea now:
I trapped a korean spear stack inside our territory so that we can make them declare on us whenever we like:
The minimap:
I fully agree with the military advisor
:
We have 5 archers near new korean capital and 2 more will arrive next turn. I think 7 archers should be enough to do the job, so we should boot the koreans to make them declare in a few turns. Note that our new cities are not defended, i didn't bother about that because they are quite useless as the AI pop-rushed them to total unhappiness.
The save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/china_sid_1750BC.SAV
Pentium
Digital Matter
I hope I'm still allowed to join, even after 2 pages 
I've been playing NMS (yes, that's what you think it is, and no, I'm not crazy yet) these days, and I've had great success with Sumeria.
On Standard Pangaea, with 4 highly agressive opponents, I was able to build GL everytime, even as late as 210BC. I only missed UN victory for 7 turns. Had I got a SGL for one of the 2 techs I discovered first (Lit and San), I'd win that one.
It might be a strategy worth considering.
I've been playing NMS (yes, that's what you think it is, and no, I'm not crazy yet) these days, and I've had great success with Sumeria.
On Standard Pangaea, with 4 highly agressive opponents, I was able to build GL everytime, even as late as 210BC. I only missed UN victory for 7 turns. Had I got a SGL for one of the 2 techs I discovered first (Lit and San
), I'd win that one. It might be a strategy worth considering.
