The Sid Virgins Try Sid Again (settings TBD)

[nerovats]

I like Bigfoot start best so far. Reasonably save position, 1 lux 2 near to be claimed. Also prefer to play mostly honorable. I usually just misuse a peace treaty to claim the last couple of isolated cities of an defeated civ.

Wil give it another go myself in a while.

 

[Heroes]

I support to keep honorable as much as possible.

Thanks for bigfoot's save, but I don't like it for several reasons:

1. There is a cow near Rome.

2. Rome starts with alphabet.

3. I don't see systematic strategy so far.

 

[Bigfoot]

I support to keep honorable as much as possible.

Thanks for bigfoot's save, but I don't like it for several reasons:

1. There is a cow near Rome.

2. Rome starts with alphabet.

3. I don't see systematic strategy so far.

I find this comment rather odd. What are the disadvantages of the cow and of starting with Alphabet? As for strategy, I would think it is rather obvious: we use the chokes to keep the AI out long enough to settle most of the available lands and build up a strong core, and then we take out our nearest neighbors. Research was Writing -> Lit.; there are 2 curraghs scouting to make more contacts and trading opportunities.

 

[Own]

I think it's more honorable not to start with alphabet and not having a cow. I'm fine with Obormot's plan.

 

[Obormot]

@ Own and Obermot, Nothing personal, but I don't like the idea of systematically breaking peace deals. My preference is to play L Kender rules, which would exclude the palace jump as well. I have managed wins playing honorably on Deity, so I don't see the point of changing my play style just to move up a level. But then nobody discussed the ground rules at the outset of this, really they should be established now.

I think you misuderstood something, i was not going to break any deals with the AI. Making the AI declare on you is something different because it doesn't always work and requires some luck. If teh AI refuses to go to war with us we would wait 20 turns. I think the trick with trapping AI units and booting them has been used in many SGs including the 7+1 game which everybody here uses as an example.
I don't see anything wrong with the palace jump too and i don't know why LK banned it, but starting with a MIL civ we are bound to get a leader sooner or later, so if you don't like the palace jump we can use our first leader to rush a new palace. We might want to adjust our strategy a bit though to make the AI attack our city with spears first. After killing the starting stack the propability of getting a leader is very high.

As for your start it does look good because of the choke, but i would not like to continue from it though, because seeing a MINED COW and unused game just breaks my heart.

 

[Own]

I've been rolling Egypt starts, but it's tough on standard, cause you hardly ever get cows.

 

[Bigfoot]

As for your start it does look good because of the choke, but i would not like to continue from it though, because seeing a MINED COW and unused game just breaks my heart.

Fair enough, and thanks for the clarification. I mined the cow early because I didn't want to uselessly irrigate a grassland tile, and because it would have taken that many turns longer. Cities at the chokes were my first priority. Still, I don't doubt that you or any number of other players could have played the opening sequence better. I don't presume to be the best player on these boards by any means. The main reason I play SGs is to learn from them.

 

[barbslinger]

I don't see anything wrong with the palace jump too and i don't know why LK banned it

I think originally it was for not taking advantage of the PTW bug that could give you almost zero corruption if you jumped palace to a remote island. I've seen SirPleb do this ina couple of games and he would have 200+ cities at extremely low corruption. Conquests does not have that bug so I'm not sure why it is not deemed to be honorable. If anything it is wasteful unless you are jumping from a desert to better lands within your territory. Then it takes up valuable shields and the time it takes to set it up properly.

 

[Own]

IIRC LK says it's also illegal to rush a palace with an MGL, which is also a ptw thing I guess. Let's continue this strat.

 

[Obormot]

Cities at the choke are not so important in my book as you could just fortify some warriors on the chokes to block AI settlers. And you could build 2 good cities in the core instead. As for the cow doing irrigation twice takes only 3 turns longer, but the gain is in faster frowth is so big that it quickly makes up for the difference.

 

[Obormot]

I think the problem with the palace jump is that you get a 300 shield (or even more depending on city count) building without actually collecting any shields, but you sacrifice a city (former capital!) for that, so that seems fair in my book. But if anybody feels wrong about that we can wait untill we get a leader, i don't want anybody to do something he doesn't feel is right. (I found LK rules it sais nothing about leaders, so i think it is not banned).

 

[Own]

I've been looking for decent starts (just a river) and I came across a game and cow on grassland start, with tons of BG's. Should we play this or is the start too good? I guess I shouldn't count my chickens before they hatch, as we may not have horses.

 

[Bigfoot]

^ Yeah, I guess it would have been smarter to irrigate. The choke is another matter though. A warrior can hold it for awhile, but the AI could have built a city such that the warrior would have been forced to move.

 

[Own]

Horses are just outside borders, building settler to grab them. My two workers will hook up quick while I get the 2 spears and walls needed.

 

[Obormot]

The choke is another matter though. A warrior can hold it for awhile, but the AI could have built a city such that the warrior would have been forced to move.

It is true, but still building 2 junk cities instead of 2 cire cities is a very high price. And given the insane tech pace you can expect galley very soon, so even cities would not hold the AI from settling on our peninsula too long.

I've been looking for decent starts (just a river) and I came across a game and cow on grassland start, with tons of BG's. Should we play this or is the start too good? I guess I shouldn't count my chickens before they hatch, as we may not have horses.

Well, i don't think we should realy on having horses. It is really tempting for me to beat sid not just on "start with horses as egypt" or on a "start on an archipelago as byzantines", but on an average start without many extra bonuses. I kin of like that Heroes's idea

 

[Obormot]

Horses are just outside borders, building settler to grab them. My two workers will hook up quick while I get the 2 spears and walls needed.

If you will be facing a non MIL civ (without archers) you don't need walls. Actually i think it is better to capture an AI city first and then move the spears in to protect it from their warriors while also having a spear in teh capital just to make sure they attack the right city.

 

[Own]

I lose. The Japanese settled CXXC from my capital, stealing three of my tiles, including 2 river BGs and the cow. I had to declare war on them, then 3 other civs tried that, and I stupidly booted them and my undefended capital will die.

 

[Bigfoot]

It is true, but still building 2 junk cities instead of 2 cire cities is a very high price. And given the insane tech pace you can expect galley very soon, so even cities would not hold the AI from settling on our peninsula too long.

I see your point, the 'opportunity cost' of building the two choke cities is pretty high. I was hoping to keep the usual stream of AI settler pairs down to a trickle instead of a flood.

Well, i don't think we should realy on having horses. It is really tempting for me to beat sid not just on "start with horses as egypt" or on a "start on an archipelago as byzantines", but on an average start without many extra bonuses. I kin of like that Heroes's idea

It sounds to me like you guys are playing this game at a different level than I do. Having never won at Sid before (nor even attempted it until recently) I would be happy to win with the best start I can find. So good luck to you all, I am going to bow out of this one.

 

[Heroes]

"It is really tempting for me to beat sid not just on 'start with horses as egypt' or on a 'start on an archipelago as byzantines', but on an average start without many extra bonuses." Yes, Obormot, that's exactly my motivation. I hope to prove that passing sid doens't depend on extreme luck (well, a bit of luck is still needed).

As for my start (the 2nd one, 1870 BC). The opening strategy is to initiate a defensive war and get a leader, so I pick the start with a gold hill nearby. Hill for 50% defensive bonus, gold for commerce. Around the capital, there are some tiles of flood plains and hills, but also some tiles of deserts. So I think it's above average but not too much (no cow!). It's just amazing that an iron is right there. Now a leader appears, everything is on schedule or even better. The next thing is to build the 4th city and organize a glorious sword army. Does any one of you guys have interest in continuing it?

 

[Own]

I like Heroes start, we just need to go for more capitals, to build a sword army. Also, extorting math is important.