The stupidity of having wild animals on the map...

[eddie_verdde]

How about if they change it so that the population starts out as 20 people with a few tents and grows from there, quickly. Would that make everyone happy.

then you wouldn't be playing CIV, you would be playing Caesar, Pharaoh, Zeus, Simcity or something similar...

 

[eddie_verdde]

But if he can back it up with scientific historic evidence ie. scources from bc which talk of animal attacks of greater magnitute - it will be interesting.
Aks K

i suppose the greatest attacks perpetrated by wild animals occurred in the Roman Colosseum...but that was entertainment

 

[Aks K]

i suppose the greatest attacks perpetrated by wild animals were those occuring in the Roman Colosseum...but that was entertainment

Now you are cheating .

Aks K

 

[troytheface]

"Lions have killed more than 560 Tanzanians since 1990, scientists announced today. The victims include children playing outside huts and people dragged from their beds, researchers say.

So Tanzanians are killing lions in increasing numbers, as you might expect"

Aug 17 2005 -Robert Roy Brit-LiveScience Managing Editor -from the article "Lions and People killing each other in Tanzania"

Beast of Gevaudan', a wolf stood accused of killing more than one hundred people

The killings took place in the rural and mountainous district of Gevaudan in the Auvergne region of south central France during three years from 1764 in an area of 700 square kilometres (270 square miles). The local inhabitants were shocked and made afraid by the happenings. Not only did hunters try to track down and kill the wolf but troops were called in to scour the province and even nobility mustered themselves to have a go.

"Several wolves were killed in the area over the years but the attacks carried on. Eventually two wolves were killed and both were claimed to be the Gevaudan wolf. They were said to be 'especially large' and had unusually coloured pelages for wolves. Survivors of the wolf attacks identified the first wolf as the Gevaudan wolf by the wounds on the animal's corpse, which they had inflicted when defending themselves. But the body of the second corpse was also identified as the Gevaudan wolf from the human remains found in the stomach."

Wild animals. The most realistic element in the game.

 

[Aks K]

"Lions have killed more than 560 Tanzanians since 1990, scientists announced today. The victims include children playing outside huts and people dragged from their beds, researchers say.

So Tanzanians are killing lions in increasing numbers, as you might expect"

Aug 17 2005 -Robert Roy Brit-LiveScience Managing Editor -from the article "Lions and People killing each other in Tanzania"

Sure, but this has nothing to do with man being killed by wild animals before say 1000 bc. The conditions are very different now that it was then. Besides Tanzania has today about 30 million people. So wild animal/total population ~10^-6 since 1990. Proportionally it is minute and insignificant (except for the people who died of cause).

Aks K

 

[eddie_verdde]

"Lions have killed more than 560 Tanzanians since 1990, scientists announced today. The victims include children playing outside huts and people dragged from their beds, researchers say.

1 - I can't believe I'm still discussing this with you

2 - tanzania has 17 M inhabitants, so, 560 killings represent 0.0033% of the population killed by lions over 15 years.

3 - most of these attacks happen because, as population increases, people need space to grow crops, build houses, etc, therefore taking away the original habitats of the lions

4 - such space competition between lions and humans would rarely take place in the ancient ages, because of the low population density. So, the human pressure on the wild animal population was insignificant as compared to that of nowadays.

5 - wild animals no kill enough man many years ago ugh

 

[Aks K]

Wild animals. The most realistic element in the game.

Back up your claims with evidence from 4000 bc to say 1000 bc. Else you cannot say this.

Besides this thread was about whether you liked the concept of animals as early units. I don't like this humanization of animals - it is a distasteful look on animals. At least since 100.000 bc only the changing environement (floods, climate changes, diseases, ect.) has posed a greater treat to man than man itself.

Aks K

 

[troytheface]

U can't believe it? Lets go back then shall we ....
Wild animals are the most realistic element in the game

1. I state a psychological perspective (as realism)
2. I state a visual/optical truth
3. I state historical/scientific evidence -(loaded request- but humble man that i be -i deliver)

While on the other hand i read dried up old fourth hand knowledge boring stuff-immersion not in life but in the fantasy of history books - dry, dusty and hollow.

 

[lost_civantares]

Back up your claims with evidence from 4000 bc to say 1000 bc. Else you cannot say this.

Besides this thread was about whether you liked the concept of animals as early units. I don't like this humanization of animals - it is a distasteful look on animals. At least since 100.000 bc only the changing environement (floods, climate changes, diseases, ect.) has posed a greater treat to man than man itself.

Aks K

Well if we are going to consider the "units" of animals (sorry haven't looked in while, are there only lions?) as any animal, think of wolves who can travel in pacts of up to 6-7, but there has been huge problems with wolves historicly. Just read about the times in places in the black forest in Europe where is was very dangerous to travel through with out being eaten by wolves in the winter, so maybe their should be animals "units" (sorry, but how is that a distastefull look on animals?), but stuck to specfic terrain types, or has a greater liklihood of being found there.

 

[Aks K]

... (sorry, but how is that a distastefull look on animals?)

Because the wild animals is out there just to get you but they are just trying to survive not hunt you down. If wild animals prey deminishes some of the animals die from starvation or they kill humans but only if they are very nearby. On the other hand man has been merciless in hunting down wild animals. The presence of wild animals has not been able to "stop" man from reaching huge population dencities.

EDIT:
As to wolves: we have had domesticated wolves/dogs for over 100.000 years so this have "helped" us against the wild ones.

Aks K

 

[lost_civantares]

Because the wild animals is out there just to get you but they are just trying to survive not hunt you down. If wild animals prey deminishes some of the animals die from starvation or they kill humans but only if they are very nearby. On the other hand man has been merciless in hunting down wild animals. The presence of wild animals has not been able to "stop" man from reaching huge population dencities.

EDIT:
As to wolves: we have had domesticated wolves/dogs for over 100.000 years so this have "helped" us against the wild ones.

Aks K

You could say the same thing for us, if they hadn't started attacking us we would have thought them harmless and not attacked them, and anyway, you could say the same thing about bacteria, who are alive according to scientific definition, yet they attack us and kill billions (cumlativly) and we kill them, so what's happened to the fuss about them? As for domestication of wolves, sorry, I don't get your point, so, we domestcated them, I didn't say that they were bad.

And as for the Tanzania lions being a very small representation, multiply that by the fact that according to the fact in early history we only had stone weapons, we lived in smaller groups, and we had no place where we could really get away from them, there was many different types of animals, lived in many more places than they do now.....

 

[Aks K]

As for domestication of wolves, sorry, I don't get your point, so, we domestcated them, I didn't say that they were bad.

Yes you did. But man also had domesticated some. Follow this link if you like.

Aks K

 

[JeBuS27]

Yes you did. But man also had domesticated some. Follow this link if you like.

Aks K

That's probably one of the silliest things I've ever read about the domestication of wolves. The leading theory about wolf domestication is that as human waste became larger and larger, wolves came more and more into contact with humans, as they scavenged the waste. Wolves who were less agressive / easily spookable, could stay near the waste while the more agressive / spookable would fight or flee. Those wolves that could stand their ground around humans had a lower adrenal response. Studies have been done on foxes that show that only a few generations of breeding amongst lower adrenal foxes can produce a more and more domesticated fox. I'll even toss a link your way about it.

 

[Aks K]

That's probably one of the silliest things I've ever read about the domestication of wolves. The leading theory about wolf domestication is that as human waste became larger and larger, wolves came more and more into contact with humans, as they scavenged the waste. Wolves who were less agressive / easily spookable, could stay near the waste while the more agressive / spookable would fight or flee. Those wolves that could stand their ground around humans had a lower adrenal response. Studies have been done on foxes that show that only a few generations of breeding amongst lower adrenal foxes can produce a more and more domesticated fox. I'll even toss a link your way about it.

It is not all that crazy.
"The first domestic animal was probably the dog, possibly as early as 10000 BC in the Natufian culture of the Levant, though there is evidence of an association between humans and wolves going back 150000 years."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication
http://www.answers.com/topic/domestication-3
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9418263&dopt=Citation

Btw - I agree it was a silly link. But it is a good page to get an overview.

Aks K

 

[JeBuS27]

My bad, I read the section beneath the one you pointed to. The one about 'wolf wars'. That's what I was saying was the silliest thing I'd ever read about the domestication of wolves.

 

[Aks K]

My bad, I read the section beneath the one you pointed to. The one about 'wolf wars'. That's what I was saying was the silliest thing I'd ever read about the domestication of wolves.

I know - . I am embarrass about that as well. But it also comes with a speculation mark. But it is fun speculation though.

Aks K

 

[JeBuS27]

Sure, especially if you say that the animal units in Civ4 are the barbarians' attempts to have 'wolf wars' with us

 

[Aks K]

Sure, especially if you say that the animal units in Civ4 are the barbarians' attempts to have 'wolf wars' with us

Ok you got me there . And when the wolves fail the barbarians go all frenzy on you .

Aks K

 

[JeBuS27]

Great... now that we've sorted all this out, how's about a beer?

 

[Aks K]

Great... now that we've sorted all this out, how's about a beer?

Excellent Thread closed .