The turn they come

[thadian]

Lots of abusive things can happen the very turn a civ is born. From being exterminated before settling their first city (which happens often) to being able to access them in the diplo advisor that turn... BEFORE your opted to play as them, or to let cities flip etc...

You can declare war on them the turn they come, pull your units out of threatened territory and let your naked cities flip. then, just walk back in, DOW and your cities are yours again without a revolution.

I believe because of this, a civ should "refuse to talk" until they settle their first city, and when they spawn, they should be given like a 5-10 turn leeway before the barbs come crushing down.

The worst thing i have seen was Greece spawning next to barbarians, flippin 2 babylon cities - both of them are my city number 2 and 3, both built EXACTLY 3 spaces from my capital. Barbs come on them, and kill them so i DOW them after the barbs sack my former cities for me to reclaim. What a mess, but wow.

 

[deanej]

How does making a civ refuse to talk help? You can declare war on a civ that refuses to talk by holding down the alt key while clicking on their name on the scoreboard.

 

[thadian]

like not having it even show up UNTIL they settle their first city. That turn can cause more than player abuse.

Greece lived 2 turns - settled one city, and died to barbs.

India which i thought didnt spawn, indeed spawned - right next to barbarians and did not even live to settle his first city.

Netherlands collapsed during a war with spain. they later declared independence - and died the same turn. When Aztec spawned, it "autokilled" the mayan without a struggle. literally, "Aztec has been born" "Mayans have been destroyed" - at the same time.

 

[thadian]

So by not having the option to interact with them AT ALL until they settle is the only solution.

 

[onedreamer]

1) this is in the nature of RFC, it's not like in RAND it's worse or anything. Actually I'd say in RAND this is a minor issue than in basic RFC since you don't know where a civ will spawn....
2) I don't know what will change if you let them settle their first city. You'll take them out just as easily..... perhaps even more easily since they'll separate their units.

 

[Ambassador]

Also sometimes nice things happen ... the year after I settled as Arabs around 25 - 30 Barbarians (Axemen, Riders, ...) swore allegiance to me, more than any of the surrounding civs had together.

Sadly, because of that much military, my research rate went to zero...

 

[brucedecatz]

You should rent those guys out as mercenaries. Who does not want camel archers?

 

[Ambassador]

Thanks, the moment I wanted to open up the mercenary screen, my game crashed!

 

[lumpthing]

Personally I dislike the whole unit-flipping mechanism of spawning. It gives humans to much power over the AI and encourages actions that just feel like exploits rather than playing a historical simulation. I mean, there was never a war where the parent country removes all its troops from a rebellious colony and then brings them back ten years later, because it knows with certainty that while they may be traitorous for a while, they'll be back to their fanatically loyal selves in exactly ten years time.

I would prefer it if the rebel civ automatically got control over the spawn-zone cities and your troops got kicked out, just like when a city culture-flips to another civ. This mechanism is already built into the game and would simulate real life much better - a colony rebels so the mother country sends in troops to take back the rebellious cities.

 

[onedreamer]

I agree to a certain extent, in reality I think that the rebels should actually fight to gain control of the colony, not the other way around.

 

[Barak]

I have found that Europe has tons of barbs that flip to spawning civs. I always forget to hire them out as mercs! Would certainly help the ol' economy.

 

[thadian]

i saw that! i was playing a russia game, thought i was spawnraped when i saw 2 stacks of barbs - who became my china invasion force.