Some questions:
-You finished earlier than Monarch. Is this due to faster AI teching? This is something I've started to suspect, since on Monarch it is often hard to tech by trading in the later game (unless one mass-gifts the AI all the techs they lack so they can start researching "useful" ones.).
There are so many different variables that go into tech speed that it’s almost impossible to list then off or give a single answere. As on my own teching.. civcs I use or am forced to use affect it…. Even religion affects tech sometimes.(though I try to stay in free religion as much as I can)…amount of specialists, and amount of total gold or hammers I want to push through tech spending. In fact, the length of tech spending itself. I often go through long phases of not funneling any cash into tech. Naturally that has an affect on how fast I also move up the trees. Different leaders will act differently with tech trading, which has an effect on everyone, including me. So does terrain, and wars, etc… Just too many causes to give any real defininte answere to.
-You mentioned fighting with grenadiers, but ended up using cavalry instead. Now some experiments I've done with Monarch+ Cavalry rushes indicates to me that they are overpowered.. quite much so. Grenadiers are jokes when compared to 2 speed, 15 strength and withdrawal. Would you say that it is indeed Cavalry that makes this strategy work for you, since a Gren war would last probably 2-3 longer or result in less land gains?
You can not consider grenadiers as jokes just because they don’t have a movement of 2 or strength of 15. In fact, grenadiers are the main unit all the best conquest/domination games revolve around. And you’ll see just about every type of player who specializes in these beelining for chemistry. (Unless it’s some silly tiny map done with a Que rush, but what’s the point/fun in that?)
Grenadiers come before riflemen. Grenadiers are cheaper. Grenadiers while having initial strength that looks less than a rife, infact are BETTER because they have a built in BOUNUS vs riflemen. Another thing domination players know is the AI’s stupid system of using riflemen for defence for everything. That is a very flawed system, and all it takes is a few cheaper grenadiers to butcher one city to the next.
Some other points.. Grenadiers have a very long lifespan. They are the best unit of their era, and even when TECHNICALY their era is done and over with… they STILL are better than the rifles that in theory are supposed to replace them. Now you see why they are one of the most potent units in the whole game.
And because their movement is half that of cavalry isn’t much an issue. The main doctrine is to move siege weapons with them. Steel is right next on the same tech path, which is another reason they are so deadly. Again, look at the big fights in the best domination/conquest games. You’ll see a LOT of cannon/grenadiers stacks. So maybe their movement is slower, but they are having 0 culture defense to overcome, and getting bombard bonuses too, while always getting the odds on their side when attacking.
And it doesn’t take long for those cannons to be upgraded to artillery. And grenadiers get upgraded sometime after that. You can keep pushing with them and never stop.
I decided to take the cav line because the AI’s don’t go after cavalry so fast. That meant I could trade it back and fill some other techs, then jump into the media branch. This is a branch the AI doesn’t prioritise, so I knew I could then also backtrade this as well while climbing up to computers. I didn’t have many goals for going up the chemistry route, or I would have rolled out those grenades, and then we could argue if it was only because of grenadiers that made this game work. It’s all situational, and I don’t use many pre-game formulas.
-You've been unclear on one point (unless I missed something, in which case I apologize): Are you advocating this strategy as a "go to" strategy that new players should prefer before cottage spamming and lightbuilbing, or is it simply the strategy you prefer, i.e. more fun for you?
Well yes, it is a strategy I prefer. I’ve been doing some more thoughts, and I remember a post mentioning that I shouldn’t be advocating such strategies in the general-tips section because it requires more skill. And I guess they do have a point on that. I had assumed though, since even amateur players can take the time to figure out how to go from Tech A to tech C by avoiding tech B, while grabbing techs D & E and then also setting up a little GP gambit & hoping it all works out…. That they would be able to at least understand enough about city specialization, filters, food, etc. I guess that isn’t the case.
You want to get your cities up to size and power right from the start? No cottages can match the effects of farms & whipping. You will never be able to even gold-rush axemen early in the game, no matter how many cottages you are trying to grow. And by the time you’re getting significant gold come in to gold-rush things, you won’t have even needed those cottages at all in the first place.
There is an article or two somewhere in the strategy archives IIRC that prove how food is the most optimum source for effective hammer conversion. Unfortunately, we run into population caps, etc. which only let us take things so far. Again, I admit there is a time and a place to use a cottage the odd time, but most people get it all wrong.
Good job showing how settled specialists beat lightbulbs in the long run.
Maybe if you actually used cottages you could beat Immortal/Deity.
It works fine on Immortal as well, though sometimes I may lose a liberalism race, etc. It still doesn’t mean the game is lost, just a set-back. But as for deity, I don’t know... I haven’t touched deity since they revamped the AI. I SUPPOSE if I could have a few shots at it… with a que rush then maybe we’ll be fine
but then again, that game would be over very quick either one way or another HAHA!
I would think you just couldn't get that many wonders, but ?when you play immortal do you play a similar strat? I realize that you would have probably lightbulbed a few times, but is this more or less your playstyle?
Surely, you must play differently if you gen costal start, or do you not play that?
Everything is situational. Sometimes I stick in crazy warmonger mode, other times I may go into builder mode. But I just don’t lightbulb. If I have a coast… and god I hate coasts but I know some people only want to play coastal because of the stupid collusus and other gimmicks. Often my strat goes like this for typical costals with lots of food, but low production -- >. I end up having to whip everything, which is ok… But I often change things around a bit. Not always will I put IW in my capital. This is one of those rare times I’ll replace it with oxford, which is fine for SE because the huge beaker bonus. IW then gets placed into another city with good solid hammer production.
Most SE pros will actually use Oxford exclusively, which is always ok Though generally my choice is IW. And naturally, with lots of food, but low production, Oxford becomes the best of choice, ESPECIALY with Rep. Though, there are exceptions.
Obselete, it's unclear whether you are advocating this approach as being better than lighbulbing/cottages, or as being a contender to lightbulbing or cottages. It seems like your preferred playstyle is to go for a space race, which necessarily means a longer game than a domination win, and more time for settled GPs to pay off.
Well, a space race is usually my last alternate strategy to turn to. I plan ahead for it just in case I need it, which just happens to be MOST THE TIME! Usually I would love to go for early conquest/domination, but that’s pretty god damn hard on continents/normal speed. So then I try to see if I can get a diplo win. That works, SOMETIMES, but I never really count on it because it’s pretty rare except for the times when shaka owns his own continent. That’s one of the only times where you CAN actually nuke his population down and grab the votes. But to be honest, in those games you can win a space race anyway if you had to, as shaka is the most backwards tech baby of them all.
I’m not going to say this method is BETTER than others. That will cause endless fights and arguments. It’s what I prefer, and it works for me. If most people can’t get it to work, then they can’t get it to work. At one time Prince level used to be the elite level over at these forums when civ IV came out. Eventually some people worked up to monarch, and people thought that was insane. Then the AI got improved, and everyone was forced back a level again. Given more time, some people got good enough and adapted to the new AI to step back up again. And then, you have Emperor and even Immortal players now.
I guess no one can be a genius overnight, or we’d all be playing deity right now.
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